Enhancing Podcast Visibility and Engagement with Philippa Gamse of Websites That Win International

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Welcome to Podcasting Tech, a podcast that equips busy

 

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entrepreneurs engaged in podcasting with proven and cost effective

 

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Matthew Passi, your host and a fifteen year veteran in the podcasting

 

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podcastingtech.com to subscribe to this show on YouTube or your favorite

 

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podcast platform, and join us on this exciting journey to unlock the full

 

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potential of your podcast. Alright.

 

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Taking you out to the West Coast, we are chatting with Philippa Gaines. She's the

 

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president of Websites That Win International.

 

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She's twenty five years in digital marketing strategy and analytics. Philippa,

 

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thank you for joining me on the show today. Yeah. Good morning, Matthew. Great to

 

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see you. So I I'm curious. How did you, you know,

 

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having done marketing and digital marketing for over twenty five years, right, you've you've been

 

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at this well before podcasting was a thing. So how'd you kinda

 

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find your way into, you know, helping and

 

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guiding podcasters when it comes to strategizing and

 

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understanding whether or not their content is successful?

 

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Yeah. I mean, I essentially, I guess, you know, because a podcast is a strategy

 

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in some ways. Because a lot of people are,

 

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doing podcasting in order to, obviously, get more visibility,

 

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to sell, you know, their services, their expertise, their products, etcetera.

 

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Right? So podcasting is actually essentially a marketing strategy

 

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as well for many people. And therefore, part of my

 

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brief is is also to help those people make that work better for

 

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them. So what are some of

 

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the, like, what are some of the things that when new clients come

 

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in, especially podcast clients come in, like, what are some of the the big, big

 

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mistakes, the big red flags, like the lost opportunities that you

 

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were seeing from them, off the bat? Yeah.

 

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So for podcasts specifically, I think there's a couple of things.

 

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One that I see a lot is if you think about the typical website where

 

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people say, here are my recent podcasts. Right? It's a long

 

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list. And as you create a new podcast,

 

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the the newest one goes to the top of the page. Right?

 

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And everything else moves down. And as everything else

 

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moves down, that means that the chances of those

 

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lower podcast being seen by a visitor get less and

 

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less because people don't typically scroll. So what you can see, because you can see

 

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how many people view each each each episode,

 

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is is that those visitor numbers or those viewer numbers just completely drop

 

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off after the first, say, top three.

 

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And I mean, in many ways, that's a real shame, right?

 

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Because there's probably really great content in

 

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in those episodes that both the person who was the guest and also the,

 

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you know, the the podcast host can benefit from having that visibility

 

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continue. And so one of the things that

 

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we can do or that I've done with some of my clients is to make

 

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suggestions like, hey, let's let's think about how to

 

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use this content again and again. Like, can we, a, I I know some

 

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hosts repromote it, which is helpful. You know, they'll they'll go back and

 

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they'll do things like I mean, over the new year that we've just had, I

 

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saw a whole load of, best podcast of twenty twenty four

 

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lists. Right? So you you get another chance to cycle it

 

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round. But for example, creating category

 

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pages on the website. So maybe you can you can

 

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categorize the content of the podcast in with different ways,

 

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different hashtags, different keywords, whatever. So you split them up

 

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in some ways. So you haven't just got one long laundry list. You've

 

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got maybe, almost like a a presentation list and

 

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and then detail pages and so on. Almost like a leak, an e commerce site.

 

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Right? But for podcasts. I'm curious

 

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these days, I feel like we rarely

 

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travel to websites to scroll, to find

 

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information. I feel like information is pushed at us

 

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from all angles, from email, from ads, from social,

 

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from videos, from friends. Right? Like

 

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how often do people really get pushed a podcast episode,

 

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even a blog post article, read it, then go back to

 

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that main list and start looking through other ones.

 

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Well, I'm, you know, I think that depends on on each individual. And and

 

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obviously, using analytics, you can tell that. But I'm also thinking about the

 

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fact that people are looking in search engines for content. And

 

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sometimes, they will look like if you have an in a search engine on

 

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your own site, which is actually a great idea because it's great market

 

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research, they will look in that search engine.

 

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Right? So so if you have a really well known podcast on, I don't know,

 

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leadership, for example, they might look

 

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for aspects of leadership, team team building,

 

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or, you know, in your search engine to see what else you've got,

 

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and that can happen. Plus people are doing keyword searches. And don't

 

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forget, you know, we YouTube is also a big search engine.

 

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It's the second most used search engine after Google. And, of course, it's actually owned

 

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by Google anyway. Right? And so

 

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if you have good keywords on your podcasts, those

 

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people will look for those in and those podcasts will appear in YouTube

 

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results as well. So that's why I'm saying that just just

 

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making some text around your podcast so that the search engines

 

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can can find out or can can index it is

 

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also really beneficial in in promoting your content.

 

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Yeah. It's funny. I I always told people, I used to work, a long time

 

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ago I worked for the Wall Street Journal and one of the things that helped

 

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us with our podcasts were once we started to

 

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embed audio players into other

 

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articles or, you know, into like a related article. It's like,

 

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oh, you're reading about this story? By the way, check out this episode from three

 

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months ago that, you know, is kinda similar. Is that something

 

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that you see being beneficial and and

 

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working? And, you know, I know podcasts have, like, a hundred or, you know, a

 

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50 episodes and 200 blog posts. It's a lot of work to kinda do that,

 

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but is it worth that investment of time and effort?

 

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Absolutely. And, again, if you're somebody who's selling services and you're

 

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podcasting because you're building your expertise, your authority, and

 

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your credibility, then, of course, on your website, along

 

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with the podcast episodes on that page, you can also have a sidebar, for example,

 

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with calls to action that highlight maybe your book or your your

 

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services, your free consulting call, whatever it is. Right?

 

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So on that page, you're not just promoting your podcast, but you're

 

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promoting what other aspects of what you do you want people to see.

 

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And, and obviously, the more you draw people to your pages, the more they're

 

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gonna see those other calls to action, which is actually how you

 

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generate the revenue. Right? So let's get

 

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back to the crux of what you do, which is really look at our analytics.

 

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What what do podcasters do wrong when it comes

 

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to reviewing their analytics, analyzing their analytics, and using that to form a

 

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strategy? Yeah. So the other thing I actually wanted to say about podcast,

 

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analytics and specifically, I mean, this also applies to videos,

 

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is that one of the other things that you can tell is how much of

 

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the podcast people actually listen to or how much of the video people

 

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actually watched. And I see a huge amount of drop

 

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off because, I I I tell this story. I had a client who

 

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absolutely prolific video maker, and he did a lot of interviews, which, you

 

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know, podcast interview, whatever. Right?

 

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And he was horrified to hear

 

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when he had no idea. When we looked at his analytics,

 

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he he would start off this whole thing with a good morning. My name is

 

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blah blah blah, and I've been doing this for a hundred years and, you know,

 

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and it was boring. I mean, he did it every time.

 

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And people people just dropped off. By by by

 

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thirty seconds, fifty percent of his his

 

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audience for the video or the podcast or whatever had gone. That's

 

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crazy. Right? And by a minute, ninety percent of them had gone. And he

 

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had no idea. And I said to him, you've you've got to start the thing

 

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by saying, good morning. Today, we're gonna talk about this, and it's gonna be really

 

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exciting, and you're gonna learn this. And you need to listen to it to the

 

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end because at the end, we're gonna and it sounds cheesy,

 

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but it helps and it works. Right? You need you need to hook people and

 

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get interesting pretty quickly. And I see this a lot that

 

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people do drop off. I mean, people's attention span, as we all know now, is,

 

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is really, really short. Right? I, I couldn't agree with you more.

 

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It's something that whenever I was consulting clients, I always talked about,

 

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no cat talk. Right? You know, when we were starting out, Marc

 

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Maron, WTF podcast was the biggest thing, and he would

 

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go on and on for ten, fifteen, sometimes twenty minutes about his personal

 

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life before he'd bring on the interview. And so we would work with these business

 

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clients who were like, well, I wanna talk about myself too. It's like, yeah. But

 

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you sold to your audience that this podcast is about x.

 

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Nobody cares about your cat. So stop wasting

 

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everybody's time, and let's get right to it. And, yeah, it's, you

 

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know, if you're a comedian, if you're doing something that is more

 

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relationship building, more community building, more, you know,

 

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about you, personality based, fine. Show us your personality.

 

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Tell us about what's going on. You know, talk about your cat, your dog, whatever.

 

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But, right, if you're doing an investment podcast about what's going on in the markets,

 

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I don't care. Tell me what's going on with the markets. Right? Let's get to

 

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it. And to your point, if if you're hearing this because I

 

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I to this day, there's still people who don't realize that they can find that

 

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kind of information. If you are not yet,

 

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if you are not yet connected to your show through Apple's podcast connect,

 

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do so right away. Claim your show, get your show, do

 

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that. That will give you some of the best analytics to do exactly what

 

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Philip was talking about, which is tell you, like, great. Here's your audience. Here's where

 

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they're dropping off. Here's how long they listen for. Here's here's the percentage of completion.

 

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Here's how many people listen who are actually followers of your show or how many

 

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people came along just because you had a great guest on it. So, you know,

 

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to to do what you were talking about, definitely make sure you're on Apple

 

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Podcast Connect, and, we'll be sure to put a link in the show notes so

 

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you can you can find that. So so let's go back.

 

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So what other analytics are podcasters

 

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either missing or not using

 

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correctly to analyze their show and

 

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understand how well they're really doing? Yeah. I mean,

 

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I I think those are the big ones. And as I said, my

 

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my the the focus of my consulting is is to help people

 

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with their business strategy overall. Right? And therefore,

 

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most of the time, I'm if I'm working with somebody who has a podcast, it's

 

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because they're using that podcast to grow their business.

 

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So that's what I'm looking for is the relationship between the podcast and

 

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and their overall business outcomes. So and part

 

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of that is is how successful the individual episodes are, which we've just talked about.

 

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And then part of it is is what do people do as a result of

 

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listening to the podcast? And are there things that you want them to do? Are

 

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you making those clear? Are you driving people to those outcomes?

 

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So not only is it are you driving them to those outcomes, but are you

 

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tracking that? Right? Like a lot of pockets were obsessed with downloads. Right? If the

 

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point of this is to sell services, right, you can

 

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get 10 sales off a hundred downloads

 

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or 10 sales off a million downloads. The first one is

 

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more successful. So, so how do you make sure

 

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that you are like, what are some of the tools? What are some of the

 

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tips? What are some of the things that you tell your clients to do to

 

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make sure that people who are checking out your content are then doing the

 

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things that you want them to do? So, I mean, obviously, you know, I'm a

 

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marketer. Calls to action are really important.

 

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Honestly, in my experience, if you if you literally don't tell people what to

 

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do next, the there's a very high chance that they won't.

 

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Because people you can't lead people to figure it out. You and

 

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you've got to be in their face and say, hey, by the way, I do

 

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this. Is this, you know, interesting to you?

 

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So there's the very specific, if you like this, if you'd like more,

 

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if you'd like to talk to me, here's what you do next. Right? And

 

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there's also less specific and less quantifiable things like what, you know,

 

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we call brand awareness. So if you see searches for

 

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your name, for example, going the numbers of people searching for your

 

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name, you know, they've heard the show, and then later they look for

 

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your website. But they know your name because they've heard the show or they look

 

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they look for the show, you know. So so looking at whether

 

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the number of people look proactively looking for you is increasing

 

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and can also and again, on social media, we we,

 

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haven't mentioned social media yet, but again, you know, this all extends into your

 

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social media presence as well. So that you can see whether just the number of

 

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people who have heard of you goes up. And, you know, there's that

 

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thing about PR and people hearing about

 

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you, that that something like

 

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people need to hear your name or your like five, nine times or

 

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something before they remember it. Everywhere seven or nine or 11 before they'll do anything.

 

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Right. So, so all of that benefit is something that you can also

 

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measure. Do you encourage

 

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clients to use like specific tracking

 

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codes and all their links? So, like, not just, you know,

 

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here's our newsletter link, UTM code

 

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podcast, but do you also say, like, no, make sure you say which

 

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podcast episode you're doing, which, or, you know, which category it's in

 

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so that you know what kind of content is performing better than others? Yeah.

 

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Great question. It's really helpful if you're doing an email

 

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newsletter, for example, where you're promoting your podcast, or even if it's a link off

 

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of a social media posting. You can

 

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add, a little bit techy here, but you can add what we call UTM

 

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parameters that and you can look up what that is in Google. It's not hard

 

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to do. And you can get, tools that will build them for you if you

 

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say what you want them to say. Right? But it's then it will

 

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specifically say this link was to this podcast

 

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episode. It was or it was this specific ad

 

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campaign, this specific email newsletter, whatever. And

 

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then you can start seeing which type of content, which type of messaging,

 

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which types of calls to action, which social media

 

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platforms, you know, are the most effective for you. And

 

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again, that can really help inform your, what you do in the future.

 

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So let's go back and let's talk about social media. What are podcasters doing

 

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wrong when it comes to promoting their content on social media, more importantly,

 

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measuring how successful they are doing on social media?

 

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So again, I I mean, I'm so I'm not a social media strategist. I'm a

 

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website strategist. But again, if you're using social media

 

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to drive people to your website where you have your

 

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podcast and also the other things that you offer,

 

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you you wanna make sure that you're getting quality visits.

 

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So you wanna make sure that the people who come in from social media are

 

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engaged in what you're doing. The I e, they listen to the podcast,

 

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maybe they go to other pages. Right? They don't just take one look and walk

 

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away. And and that's why we want to make sure that we're

 

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tagging things so that we know exactly which posting

 

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each visitor came from. Because what we're looking for, as I

 

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said, is is which are the quality visitors? Because Because I

 

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think you said this earlier, you can have a million visitors. And if none of

 

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them buy anything or do any of the stuff you want them to do, sign

 

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up, you'll need to subscribe to your channel, whatever it is, then

 

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who cares if you had a million visitors, right, to some extent.

 

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So really understanding where where

 

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your quality traffic comes from, is

 

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is really important. And which therefore, you know, do you do better when you

 

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promote on Instagram than when you promote on LinkedIn? I I you know, it

 

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will be different for every business, and I think that's a really important thing to

 

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say. Like, don't believe stuff that says everybody should be doing

 

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TikTok or Facebook. Well, we still can. I don't know. It it

 

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it's really important to figure out what works for your business.

 

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That is also something I've always said to folks is, you know, what's the best

 

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number for my podcast? I don't know what your podcast is about. Right? If you're

 

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doing a craft podcast, well, you should be on Etsy and Instagram. If you're doing

 

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a business podcast, well, you should be on LinkedIn. Right? So it's not it's not

 

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about what which platform is best for podcasts, which best your

 

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podcast. I just wanna go back. You were you were talking earlier about that call

 

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to action and, yeah, I I've always had the sense that,

 

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you you know, I I don't say this to be cruel, but

 

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as a podcaster, you have to assume your audience is dumb and

 

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lazy. So if you don't tell them what to do and you don't make it

 

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as easy as possible for them to do it, they are not going to and

 

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you're gonna be very frustrated with the results. Are there particular

 

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ways to frame your call to actions or,

 

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you know, talk about them that tend to, you

 

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know, generate more success than than others, or are there

 

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common ones out there that you're like, god. I wish people would stop using this

 

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as a call to action. It never works. Well,

 

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a, and this is a huge thing that I see a lot is make sure

 

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that people can see them. I know this sounds really stupid.

 

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But a lot of times you see the call to action is way at the

 

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bottom of the page, or it's at the top of the page and it

 

Speaker:00:17:53

disappears. But, you know, there's nothing wrong with having more than one

 

Speaker:00:17:57

multiple calls to action if you like. But a lot of the time, one of

 

Speaker:00:18:00

the big problems that I see is that the call to action just isn't even

 

Speaker:00:18:04

obvious to people. Which I mean, a lot of this

 

Speaker:00:18:08

is, I I find with analytics, it's just kind of, duh, you're kind of hitting

 

Speaker:00:18:11

your forehead stuff. But and and that's, you know, I

 

Speaker:00:18:15

don't blame site owners for that because one of the things that I think happens

 

Speaker:00:18:19

is that we're all so close to our own staff that

 

Speaker:00:18:22

we it doesn't occur to us that people can't see it, or

 

Speaker:00:18:26

it doesn't stand out to somebody who's never seen this stuff before,

 

Speaker:00:18:30

because we know it's there, and we're so used to it. And I've had this

 

Speaker:00:18:33

a lot, you know, site owners will say, but it's right there. And you say,

 

Speaker:00:18:37

yeah. You can see it. Oh, it's in the menu bar. Yeah. Right. But if

 

Speaker:00:18:40

I don't look at the menu bar, then I'm not gonna see it.

 

Speaker:00:18:43

Right. So number one, definitely make

 

Speaker:00:18:47

make sure that we typically have more than one in a page and you

 

Speaker:00:18:51

people can see it. And and and the other thing is is make it action

 

Speaker:00:18:55

oriented to whatever it is that you're you're looking for them to

 

Speaker:00:18:58

do. And so maybe sign up for our

 

Speaker:00:19:02

newsletter, but if your newsletter has something that's a really valuable offering with

 

Speaker:00:19:06

it, you know, get x, whatever

 

Speaker:00:19:09

x is now, or or something like that that actually

 

Speaker:00:19:13

builds the benefit into the call to action. And and the thing

 

Speaker:00:19:16

about analytics is it's quite easy these days to test.

 

Speaker:00:19:21

The point of analytics, right, is is not just to see the numbers, but to

 

Speaker:00:19:24

say, what am I gonna do about this? And

 

Speaker:00:19:28

we can make our best guess about what it is that might be going wrong

 

Speaker:00:19:32

or might improve the results, but you actually need to test.

 

Speaker:00:19:36

So it's quite easy to get to get tools that help you do

 

Speaker:00:19:40

that by sort of changing the wording on the call to

 

Speaker:00:19:43

action, serving up different variants at different times so that you can

 

Speaker:00:19:47

see the results. Right? So you can do all this. You have to

 

Speaker:00:19:51

think about it a bit, but it can really pay off.

 

Speaker:00:19:56

What would you say to the idea of

 

Speaker:00:20:00

white noise? So, you know, there are some podcasters and

 

Speaker:00:20:04

this is true, not just podcast. This happens all over the place, but, you know,

 

Speaker:00:20:08

you you say the same thing every single episode. Right? Your intro is

 

Speaker:00:20:12

exactly the same. Your intro is exactly the same. Use the exact same language to

 

Speaker:00:20:15

the point where now your regular listeners are kinda tuning it out. Do you think

 

Speaker:00:20:19

that's a problem? Do you think it should be you should be rotating

 

Speaker:00:20:23

call to actions or, you know,

 

Speaker:00:20:27

rephrasing them every time just so that they don't get stale and and lost in

 

Speaker:00:20:31

the noise? You know, I think I think

 

Speaker:00:20:35

that's a consultant's favorite it depends answer.

 

Speaker:00:20:40

I gave a lot of those back in the day. I know what you're talking

 

Speaker:00:20:42

about. Well, you know,

 

Speaker:00:20:46

a, if it's short, I mean, we've already talked about not having massively long intros

 

Speaker:00:20:49

in any way because it's it's just, you know, and there's always gonna

 

Speaker:00:20:53

be a proportion of people who've never heard it before. If you know it works

 

Speaker:00:20:57

and it's short and catchy, I mean, look at all the comedians that have

 

Speaker:00:21:00

catchphrases that we all know and love and we just expect them to say them.

 

Speaker:00:21:04

Right? And if they don't say them

 

Speaker:00:21:08

I mean, I I'm from The U UK, as you can hopefully

 

Speaker:00:21:12

hear. That is suspicion. You

 

Speaker:00:21:15

know, and and there was when I was a a kid, there was a comedy

 

Speaker:00:21:19

duo that had this song they would sing at the end of every every every

 

Speaker:00:21:23

it was a TV show. Right? And I mean, you were waiting for

 

Speaker:00:21:27

them to sing it because it was a great song. And if they didn't sing

 

Speaker:00:21:29

it, it was something was wrong. So so sometimes those standard

 

Speaker:00:21:33

endings and things can be helpful anyway in that relationship

 

Speaker:00:21:37

building that you talked about. So I I

 

Speaker:00:21:41

I mean, again, you can look at your results and you

 

Speaker:00:21:44

can see when you start that standard beginning or standard ending, do a lot of

 

Speaker:00:21:48

people tune out? If they do, then maybe that's a clue that it's time to

 

Speaker:00:21:51

change it up. I mean, the good news about analytics now is that we have

 

Speaker:00:21:55

all sorts of data that we didn't used to have that we can harness

 

Speaker:00:21:59

to say, how do I make this better?

 

Speaker:00:22:03

Makes a lot of sense. We've been chatting with Philippa Game. She is the

 

Speaker:00:22:06

president of Websites That Win International. You can learn more

 

Speaker:00:22:10

at websitesthatwin.com. Philip, before we let you go, we have a

 

Speaker:00:22:14

couple questions we'd like to ask everybody who comes on the show. First thing is,

 

Speaker:00:22:18

I know you're not, you know, technically a podcast expert,

 

Speaker:00:22:22

but, you know, I know you've been doing a lot of podcast guesting and you

 

Speaker:00:22:25

work with clients through their podcasting. Is there something about the podcasting

 

Speaker:00:22:29

space, whether it's from the listening side, production side, data side,

 

Speaker:00:22:32

whatever, that you would like to see improved in the near

 

Speaker:00:22:36

future? Sometimes,

 

Speaker:00:22:40

I like sites that give you a transcript as well. I know that's more

 

Speaker:00:22:43

difficult, but I guess with AI, it's easier now. And

 

Speaker:00:22:47

I'm talking about a consume as a consumer. Because sometimes,

 

Speaker:00:22:52

I know that the guest is talking about something that I really wanna hear. I

 

Speaker:00:22:55

don't have a lot of time. I'd love to be able to just get what

 

Speaker:00:22:58

they what they said in an easy, quick, like, without having to listen

 

Speaker:00:23:02

to the whole thing. You know? Or maybe it will tell either with the ones

 

Speaker:00:23:05

that have summaries that say, you know, at five minutes, we start talking a bit

 

Speaker:00:23:09

about this, and at eight minutes, we're talking about this. So you can sort of

 

Speaker:00:23:12

jump in just, when you're when you're short

 

Speaker:00:23:15

of time, but you really want the information.

 

Speaker:00:23:19

Do you think it's okay to use AI transcripts that have not

 

Speaker:00:23:23

been cleaned up? Like, you know, AI is good, not

 

Speaker:00:23:26

great, but real transcripts with the full fix

 

Speaker:00:23:30

are, like you said, they're not cheap. I know. That I know. And I agree.

 

Speaker:00:23:34

And I I think that is an issue. Maybe that will get better. But and

 

Speaker:00:23:37

I don't obviously, it's not helpful to read a transcript. Because we don't talk in

 

Speaker:00:23:39

in structured sentences when we're talking. I just

 

Speaker:00:23:43

changed my direction in mid sentence. Right. And that's hard to read if

 

Speaker:00:23:47

you're trying to read it. So, yes, it would be nice. And I I get

 

Speaker:00:23:51

that that's expensive. You asked me, you know, blue sky question, what would I like

 

Speaker:00:23:54

to see? And so that was my answer. Oh, no. No. No. I I agree

 

Speaker:00:23:57

with the I agree with your answer. I was just curious as, you know, again,

 

Speaker:00:24:00

with the website analytics and whatnot, if there's, you know, if there's

 

Speaker:00:24:04

a big downside to them being AI generated and not, you

 

Speaker:00:24:07

know, human curated. So, appreciate that.

 

Speaker:00:24:12

Is there any tech on your wish list that you're looking to

 

Speaker:00:24:16

get for podcasting, mic, camera, software platform? Like,

 

Speaker:00:24:19

something that, again, you know, would just would just be

 

Speaker:00:24:23

great, for the world of podcasting.

 

Speaker:00:24:28

Probably something that that, I don't know.

 

Speaker:00:24:32

I am pretty happy with my setup, but I I mean, there's something that doesn't

 

Speaker:00:24:36

exist that might, you know, make me look better in

 

Speaker:00:24:40

on camera or something with, with my, with my camera and my zoom

 

Speaker:00:24:43

and my, you know, lighting and stuff that

 

Speaker:00:24:47

that I don't have to mess with, you know? Just set it up and

 

Speaker:00:24:51

go. But it knows what to do, and I don't have to think about it.

 

Speaker:00:24:55

That would be lovely. Alright. Fortunately, we are working on

 

Speaker:00:24:58

a solution for just that. So I'll be back in touch with you about that

 

Speaker:00:25:01

one. Excellent. And lastly, are there, podcasts

 

Speaker:00:25:05

that you listen to that are your absolute favorites that whenever they have a

 

Speaker:00:25:09

new episode, you are going to listen to them or, you know, you'll never miss

 

Speaker:00:25:12

one of their episodes? I'm I'm afraid it's

 

Speaker:00:25:16

a UK based podcast. Is that right? Which one? What's give him love

 

Speaker:00:25:19

anyway? I'm I'm a I am a politics and news

 

Speaker:00:25:23

junkie. And and there's a a couple

 

Speaker:00:25:27

of podcasts that I get out of The UK that would the rest is politics.

 

Speaker:00:25:32

And then, I

 

Speaker:00:25:36

I'm actually just just going into my favorite, podcast

 

Speaker:00:25:40

directory here to, there's one called the rest the rest is politics,

 

Speaker:00:25:43

and there's one called the news agents.

 

Speaker:00:25:47

The rest and there's a rest is politics US version of the rest of

 

Speaker:00:25:51

politics. But they're they're really good, discussions of

 

Speaker:00:25:54

what's going on with really experienced broadcasters and

 

Speaker:00:25:58

journalists. And, and there's the one called the the news

 

Speaker:00:26:01

agents as well is is I love. And then there's actually one called the rest

 

Speaker:00:26:05

is history, which is amazing exact stories from history

 

Speaker:00:26:09

that they really dive in-depth into things that we didn't know

 

Speaker:00:26:12

about, you know, or that we could know more. And they make it really interesting

 

Speaker:00:26:16

and human and yeah. Love it. I

 

Speaker:00:26:20

I'm a I'm a fan of good political and or history podcast, so I will,

 

Speaker:00:26:23

give that one a spin. Once again, it's Philippa Games,

 

Speaker:00:26:27

president of Websites That Win International. Thank you so much for joining us

 

Speaker:00:26:31

today. Thank you. Thanks for joining us today on Podcasting

 

Speaker:00:26:35

Tech. There are links to all the hardware and software that help

 

Speaker:00:26:39

power our guest content and podcasting tech available in the

 

Speaker:00:26:42

show notes and on our website at

 

Speaker:00:26:44

podcastingtech.com. You can also subscribe to the show on your favorite

 

Speaker:00:26:48

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Speaker:00:26:52

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Speaker:00:26:55

Tech.