Horse Radio Network’s Glenn Hebert Talks Podcast Segments, Sponsorship, and Community

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potential of your podcast. Very

 

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special guest on the show today, someone who, if you've been

 

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to podcasting events, especially Podfest, you probably know who he is. He's

 

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he's always there, and he's always has a big presence. It is

 

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Glenn Hebert aka Glenn the Geek, founder of the Horse Radio Network,

 

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and host of Horses in the Morning. Glenn, thank

 

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you for joining me tonight. Well, I'm glad to be here. And, you know, I

 

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don't know why we haven't done this sooner. I think we've known each other ten

 

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years at this point. It's a long time. Right. There's no reason why you shouldn't

 

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have been on before. It's funny because I it's a lot of people, they'll

 

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ask me about podcasting and advertising and niches

 

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and I always tell the story, when you and

 

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I first met or, you know, we were we were sitting down chatting at Podfest

 

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one year and you were talking about shows that are successful and

 

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levels of success. And I always remember, you know, horses in the morning, obviously,

 

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massive audience, big download numbers. But I always remember you telling me

 

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that you have that carriage horse racing show or you had that carriage horse

 

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racing show, and that actually had, like, bigger margins or was

 

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technically more profitable even though it was a really tiny audience. And I I took

 

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that to heart, and I always share that with people, you know, as far as,

 

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like, why niches are important. And I definitely wanna come back to that some more.

 

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But first, just real quickly, you have an interesting foray

 

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into podcasting, in particular into

 

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podcasting about all things horses. Tell us how you,

 

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you know, got started with horses in the morning and and eventually launched the

 

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network. Well, I, I was a performer for a long

 

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time. A matter of fact, I have a picture up here above my head that's,

 

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an acting company that I owned for ten years, and we did medieval

 

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feasts. We kinda did a Benny Hill version of a medieval feast. So it

 

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was fun. It was improv. It was we did 450 shows.

 

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And I got out of that, got into doing business stuff. I was

 

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in finance for a long time and, owned some companies and sold some

 

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companies. And then, I just needed an outlet

 

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for for the creative side again, you know, for the performer side.

 

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And my brother said, hey. There's this thing. I listened to Twit. I listened

 

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to Leo Laporte's Twit, and this was back in 02/2006.

 

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And he said, I think they called a podcast. You ought to check it out.

 

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Maybe that's something you could do. And that's and that's how it started.

 

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I, I did my first show in 02/2006, which was an immense

 

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failure because none of us knew what we were doing and nobody knew how to

 

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listen. And it was way ahead of where I should have been in the horse

 

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world. And then in 02/2008, I tried it again. Technology

 

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had caught up a little. Smartphones were just starting. You know, it was a little

 

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easier to listen to a podcast and then started

 

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a Stable Scoop show with my good friend Helena. And I knew I always wanted

 

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a network. So we started one show on the horse radio network.

 

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And I called it radio back then because nobody knew what a podcast was, but

 

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I could tell them it was online radio and they would kind of get it

 

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right. That's why it was radio network and not podcast

 

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network because, you know, back then, nobody knew. We barely

 

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knew. So people struggling today. Yeah. And then we started

 

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more shows. And then I always wanted to be a morning

 

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radio show guy, but I didn't wanna go to work.

 

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So that's when I put out a call for a cohost

 

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to start horses in the morning, which would be a daily show an hour an

 

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hour and a half every day, five days a week. And we started that in

 

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02/2010 with Jamie, my cohost, who came out of morning radio in

 

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Atlanta. She was in top four 40 morning radio in Atlanta. You know how

 

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the morning radio shows always have two guys and the girl, the token

 

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girl? Well, she was the token girl. You know? So, you know, she was that

 

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person, but she had, you know, done very well there and moved and

 

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decided she wanted to talk about horses. So we started horses in the morning,

 

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and now we're at 3,600 episodes fifteen years later.

 

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Incredible. Yeah. I I'm I guess

 

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what what made the show you think

 

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attractive to people? You know, like, you're you're doing this

 

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morning radio thing, but you're also keeping the focus on horses. Do you think

 

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having that focus helped in the success rate finding that

 

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specific niche, that specific filter to go through what's happening in your

 

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lives and what's happening in the world, was, you know, able to

 

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help you grow your audience? No question. I mean, horse people are addicted

 

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to horses. They spend all their time and money on horses, period. There's nothing else

 

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in their lives. So so we had that going for us. So it

 

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was a good niche. And there wasn't really any other podcast out there

 

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for horses. The Daily Show, I think I think

 

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the reason it well, it's what I always say. They come for the content, but

 

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they stay for the host. And that's true for podcasts or YouTube channels.

 

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If you think about all the YouTube channels you watch and subscribe to, subscribe

 

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to, you're subscribed because you like the presenters. You like the host. You like the

 

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people that are doing the show. There's a million travel shows out

 

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there. We subscribe to four or five different YouTube channels because we like

 

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them. So we would watch whatever they did. And, you know,

 

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and that's true of especially true of podcasts. So

 

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I think that, people came, tried out horses in the morning. It's a

 

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commitment to subscribe to a show that's gonna take five hours of your

 

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week. Right? That's a commitment because it's an hour every

 

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day. And they subscribe because they like me. They

 

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like Jamie. They especially like Jamie. She's probably my most popular cohost.

 

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But it's because we're vulnerable. We're out there. We talk about our lives. The show

 

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initially started to be about our guests, and now the biggest complaint we

 

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get is we have too many guests. And it's not enough for us

 

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because the show really has become about us and our lives in the horse world

 

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and how it relates to horses because everybody we're just average horse people. I'm a

 

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horse husband. I wasn't even, you know, a horse guy to start with. She's a

 

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trainer. So it it really we have that kind of I

 

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asked the dumb questions. She asked the intelligent questions. But that

 

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kinda works. Right? And now now fifth you know,

 

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6,000 interviews later, I probably know more about horses

 

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than most horse people, but that's just because of doing the

 

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show. But I think that's why people hung around. They got invested in us, and

 

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I think that's why our Patreon community is there and so addicted. And

 

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it's why it works, is because

 

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we were like them. Now we and we do some good interviews, and, you

 

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know, we have some fun along the way. It's a comedy show, first and foremost.

 

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It's entertainment. And and I think the other thing is I was the first

 

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one to really start the segment instead of doing just

 

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a long interview show. We will have four or five

 

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segments in the show. So our interview is never more than ten to

 

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fifteen minutes, and then we're done with the interview and moving on to a

 

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different segment. So there was all if you weren't interested in that guest, you

 

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just fast forward fifteen minutes, and you were at something else. If you didn't like

 

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the something else, fast forward fifteen minutes, you were at something else. So we always

 

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had segments, in the show, and some of them are recurring

 

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segments every week, some are once a month, you know, and some are

 

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just one offs. But they always knew that there's gonna be something new

 

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in about ten, fifteen minutes. I the

 

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idea of segments is so interesting. One of the shows that I've been listening to

 

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podcasting forever is Wait Wait on Tommy, and that is a highly

 

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structured show. Now, of course, it started as a radio show, so it made

 

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sense where they had to fit to the clock, but they've kept that structure

 

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all along the way. And it's interesting because I I like

 

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listening. I feel like a comfort in listening. And anytime they break

 

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the mold, right, they do a best of show or they do something else. I'm

 

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always just a little bit uncomfortable listening. And so, like, did

 

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you have that thought about the familiarity of segments, or

 

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was it just something that you felt like it worked and you just kept wanting

 

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to come back to it? I stole the none of these are new

 

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ideas. Right? Nothing we do is new. So I stole the idea from

 

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a morning syndicated radio show called Bob and Cherry. And I've become good

 

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friends with them now since then, by the way. But they were

 

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on for years, and I listened to them for years. And I was like, I

 

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wanna do a segmented show like they do because they had regular guests,

 

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one guy that came on did movie reviews, and I so look forward to him

 

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coming on. So I knew if we could get regular guests that would show up

 

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once a month, that people would look forward to that too, and they would look

 

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forward to the segments that we do. The most popular thing we do, hands down,

 

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is on Fridays. The last thing we do on a Friday, and

 

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I knew I needed something that was gonna keep people to the last thing on

 

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a Friday show, right, before they head into the weekend to ride their horse,

 

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is we do something called really bad ads. And that's where listeners

 

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submit bad Craigslist and Facebook ads for horses for sale. And

 

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we just make fun of them. Basically, we just make fun of them.

 

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And it's our most popular thing we do. We get hundreds of people submitting every

 

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month. And then we got sponsors that wanted to give away prizes. So we

 

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give away prizes every month. We randomly pick three of the

 

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people who submitted bad ads, and we give away 4 or $500 worth of

 

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prizes every month for people who submit bad ads. And

 

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so, you know, that was that was just that happened by

 

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accident, and it was one of the all the good segments we do now happen

 

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by accident along the way, and we just followed them. I love that.

 

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Just kinda follow what works, try different things, and you just

 

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gotta kinda trust your gut. And I love that idea that you save

 

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it for the very end. Lots of folks are always, you know, wondering, how do

 

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I get people to listen to the very end of the show? And it's like,

 

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you have to have a hook. You have to have something that people

 

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wait for. And and there are lots of shows that do this really

 

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well, but I think the way you just described it is brilliant that you were

 

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really conscious of that thought. So so what happens next? You, you know, you

 

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did the first show, The Stable Scoop, then you do Horses in the Morning. Where

 

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does it go from there in terms of growing the network? Well, I I

 

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I knew that we had we had identified a ton of niches in the horse

 

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world that we could do shows about. My thing

 

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was always finding the right host. So my first goal was to

 

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find the right host, and I did that usually by doing

 

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interviews on one of the shows. So we'd have them a guest on one of

 

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the shows, and I'd go, that person may would make a good host. And then

 

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we would I'd figure out what niche they really were good in

 

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or competed in or whatever, And then I would approach them, and that we always

 

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started with the host and then built the show. And

 

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so, you know, we built, 20 plus shows over the

 

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years, and I would never start a show unless they

 

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had a sponsor either. So the two things I had to have was a good

 

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host, a good sponsor, and a good marketing partner.

 

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So I'll give you an example. We started a show. There's a there's a very

 

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boring and I'm not everybody knows how I feel about this. There's a very

 

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boring but very popular, competition in the horse world called

 

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dressage. It's kinda like dancing. You know? And it for horse

 

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husbands, it's boring. My wife did it, so I had to watch it. So,

 

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I, you know, I can speak from spirits. But we've the Dressage

 

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Federation in The United States was, we approached them about

 

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being a a media partner for that show. So now and making it the official

 

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podcast for that for, Dressage.

 

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So twelve years ago, we started that show, and they were a marketing

 

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partner. What that got us was an audience. There was no money exchanged

 

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hands, but they promoted the show. So it brought an audience in.

 

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And here we are twelve years later. That show is still one of our most

 

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popular shows, and we're still the official show of the of the federation.

 

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So it was media partners, sponsors, and

 

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the right host. I I'm I'm envisioning you

 

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at these events, you know, sitting at a table almost like dodgeball

 

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with Jason Bateman and what's his face, you know. You know, talking about the

 

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Ocho and, you know, like, just having fun, like, watching people do it is. Do

 

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you go to the events and kind of broadcast from there as well?

 

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Not as much. We've been we get invited to 10 events a month.

 

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And the problem with that is every time you leave the house, it's

 

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$1,500. You know, it's funny because I would I

 

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would tell people that and they don't believe you, but when you figure it out,

 

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if you take everything into consideration, every time I leave the house to go to

 

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an event, it's at least $1,500. So we knew we couldn't cover everything

 

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and be able to afford it and be able to sustain it, so we didn't.

 

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We just didn't. We went to key a couple key events every year to shows

 

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every year. But the one thing we never missed was the

 

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wholesaler show with wholesalers and retailers in the horse world. There

 

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was two of those every year. I've been to almost 40 of them

 

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now. And we went to those, one, to highlight new products that were coming out

 

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because our listeners love hearing about new products, but two was to find sponsors. It's

 

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at those in person events where we found 80% of our

 

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sponsors. Because when you're face to face with someone, you got their

 

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attention. And if you give them something and then approach them

 

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about sponsoring, so we give them an interview where they could highlight their new product,

 

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put it on a show, and follow-up with them, They would see a

 

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result from the interview. They the you know, that talking about that new

 

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product, they see sales coming in, and then we had their attention, and we'd go

 

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after them for sponsors after that. So it was that in person

 

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wholesaler meat retailer show where we and then eventually

 

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by the way, we do their podcast now, the Wholesale Show's

 

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podcast. And we go there now and do shows. We actually

 

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record shows at at the event in Dallas. But, you know, it

 

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was always finding a marketing partner. And I, you know, we we got we

 

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were the first ones to have press passes at an event like this because nobody

 

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ever did that. And then, you know, I just approached them and said, why don't

 

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you do your own show? And that show has a smaller audience,

 

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maybe five to 700 a month, but it's targeted to the

 

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retailers, you know, where the wholesalers meet the retailers. So that's a very

 

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targeted show and very effective that way. But

 

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yeah. So we do their show now too. It's all about partnerships.

 

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It's all about who you meet. And, you know, it it's all about who knows

 

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you, not who you know, but who knows you. That's the most important

 

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thing. Do people know you? I I'm I I

 

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wanna go back to this idea of the wholesalers at the interview

 

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and talking to them. And but real quickly, let's go back to that idea of

 

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the the, you know, the super niche. Right? The CaraTaurus racing or

 

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dressage. Like, what did you find when you

 

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were creating these extremely niche shows

 

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with these wholesalers or, you know, all these very specific topics. Like, how did

 

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those compare to the more general day to day, you

 

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know, talk show format that focused around horses but

 

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wasn't, you know, as super niche as some of these other ones? It was easier

 

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to find sponsors for the niche shows because, you know, a lot of

 

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your sponsors our sponsors in our world are medium to

 

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smaller companies. A lot of them, you know, they have three or four employees,

 

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but they target they target that niche. They have saddles or bridles or

 

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whatever for that specific discipline. So it

 

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was actually easier to target them and have them come

 

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aboard and actually have them do well. So, you know, we're doing this

 

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because we want them to sell stuff. You know, we're our goal is to help

 

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them sell stuff. So we were never looking for the large companies, the

 

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ones with ad agencies, because they weren't looking at us either. Right? They don't wanna

 

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be bothered. So we always we always talk to the

 

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medium to small companies because I can do I could help them grow. Our first

 

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sponsor years ago, fifteen years ago now, is

 

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still our biggest sponsor today. And she says, you

 

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know, over the last fifteen years, she's gotten more direct response from

 

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our shows than any other advertising they do, and they do a lot, like, you

 

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know, well into 6 figure advertising. But she said, I hear more

 

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from your people who say I listened to you know, I heard you on the

 

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show. I I have this question for you about my horse. She

 

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said, that's who I hear from. I don't hear from somebody that says I saw

 

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a magazine ad. You know? Because our advertising is so

 

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personal. It's you know? I I can say, hey. Look. I use Kentucky

 

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performance products with my pony, and this is why. That's

 

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much more personal than seeing a magazine ad. And, you know, I'm owned

 

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now by a company that owns 10 magazines, so they love when I say

 

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this stuff. But I'm sure they do. I

 

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have to imagine too that being part of that magazine, allows them

 

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to sell, like, big bundled advertising. They do. Is right. Like Yeah. And now

 

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and, you know, we sold I sold the network, to

 

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almost three years ago now and to, one of the largest

 

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media companies in the horse world. And they they didn't have an audio

 

Speaker:00:17:07

side. They had magazines. They had video. They owned some

 

Speaker:00:17:10

companies as well, some production companies, but, they didn't have the audio

 

Speaker:00:17:14

side. So they wanted that tripod, and they were missing the audio.

 

Speaker:00:17:18

So that's why they took a look at buying us. And, it took about six

 

Speaker:00:17:22

months of negotiations. Fortunately, I had a very good lawyer.

 

Speaker:00:17:25

And, you know, we made the deal, and, my deal was that I would

 

Speaker:00:17:29

continue on for three years after running the network. And that very

 

Speaker:00:17:32

seldom works out with principals. They usually last six months, and

 

Speaker:00:17:36

either they're fired or they leave. It never works out, actually.

 

Speaker:00:17:40

You know that as well as I do. It just doesn't work. People say they're

 

Speaker:00:17:43

gonna do it, but here I am because they've been very good to me, and

 

Speaker:00:17:46

I've tried to continue doing my job to my best ability. And then

 

Speaker:00:17:50

hopefully, continuing on after October, I'll I'll just be hosted

 

Speaker:00:17:54

horse hosting horses in the morning, and then somebody else will be running the

 

Speaker:00:17:57

network. That's the goal. Very nice. Yeah. I have some experience. I I

 

Speaker:00:18:01

stayed on for six months with the company when when it was sold in a

 

Speaker:00:18:04

totally consulting role, right, just helping them out as much as I could, very amicable.

 

Speaker:00:18:08

But, yeah, a lot of people when I was approached about the sale said, don't

 

Speaker:00:18:12

try and stay on. It it never works out, so I understand. Well, you

 

Speaker:00:18:16

know, it's different though with podcasting because if you think about it, you know, I

 

Speaker:00:18:20

host, you know, one of the most popular show on the network. You

 

Speaker:00:18:23

can't do that because that show then goes away. You know?

 

Speaker:00:18:27

It was my relationships with these sponsors and all of that that

 

Speaker:00:18:31

was built. So I think they were smart enough to realize, hey. This guy can't

 

Speaker:00:18:34

go away or we just lose our investment. And in podcasting, that's different

 

Speaker:00:18:38

because it is all about the personalities. That's true. People are coming

 

Speaker:00:18:42

for you and your co host. One one thing you said earlier that I wanna

 

Speaker:00:18:45

just touch on real quickly, you know, you you talk to these

 

Speaker:00:18:49

wholesalers and you interview them and then you get them to

 

Speaker:00:18:53

sponsor. They need to pitch them to have their own show and you you

 

Speaker:00:18:56

help them target their specific audience, which are the retailers.

 

Speaker:00:19:01

What is your strategy for real

 

Speaker:00:19:05

efficient podcast marketing

 

Speaker:00:19:08

targeting something so specific as that? It's the media

 

Speaker:00:19:12

partners. It's the partners we have because they have the audience

 

Speaker:00:19:15

already. So in this case in this case, it was kinda easy. So when you

 

Speaker:00:19:19

have the wholesale show, they already have a you know, they they know who their

 

Speaker:00:19:22

clients are. They know who the retailers that come to the show are. So we're

 

Speaker:00:19:26

targeting them directly. It becomes a little easier because they're already in communication with them

 

Speaker:00:19:29

through social media and email and all of that. With a

 

Speaker:00:19:33

more general show like Courses in the Morning, it's word-of-mouth. You know, you

 

Speaker:00:19:37

know, you still see the statistics come out. It was more so

 

Speaker:00:19:41

years ago that the only way people came to your show is through

 

Speaker:00:19:44

word-of-mouth. 70% of people found you through word-of-mouth because search wasn't that

 

Speaker:00:19:48

good years ago for podcasting. You know that. That's only gotten better since

 

Speaker:00:19:52

COVID, really. And yeah. Yeah. And you're right. It's still not great. Right?

 

Speaker:00:19:56

You search horses now and and you'll get all but horse in the morning

 

Speaker:00:19:59

doesn't come up first. Depending on what search engine you use.

 

Speaker:00:20:03

So we knew word-of-mouth. So we actually did campaigns throughout the year

 

Speaker:00:20:07

to encourage our our listeners to tell their friends. You

 

Speaker:00:20:11

know, you're at the barn today. Go tell your all your friends at the barn

 

Speaker:00:20:15

that you listen to the show. Or better yet, put the if they own the

 

Speaker:00:20:18

barn, put the show on and let them listen to it. And a lot of

 

Speaker:00:20:21

our listeners actually play the show in the barn, on

 

Speaker:00:20:24

speakers. So they listen to it every day because we hear from them all the

 

Speaker:00:20:28

time, you know, that they're we do horse whinnies throughout the show occasionally.

 

Speaker:00:20:32

And they said, every time that horse whinnies, my horse is whinnying back.

 

Speaker:00:20:36

You know? So it's that kind of thing. It was it's word-of-mouth. And

 

Speaker:00:20:39

you know as well as I do, for somebody to subscribe to a new

 

Speaker:00:20:43

podcast, it's a commitment for them. They're thinking

 

Speaker:00:20:46

about, do I have time for this? They're subconsciously going, we do it too when

 

Speaker:00:20:50

we subscribe to stuff. We're going, do I have time to listen to this show,

 

Speaker:00:20:54

or will I have to take the time to listen to this show?

 

Speaker:00:20:57

So it's a real commitment. I think that's become harder over the years.

 

Speaker:00:21:01

I think now it's harder for people to commit because there

 

Speaker:00:21:05

are they have all this other stuff they can commit to, audiobooks

 

Speaker:00:21:08

and, you know, a million podcasts and all of that.

 

Speaker:00:21:12

So our our challenge has become, how do we teach people what a

 

Speaker:00:21:16

podcast is to how do we now get

 

Speaker:00:21:20

people to listen to ours as opposed to the 5,000 others, you know, that are

 

Speaker:00:21:23

in our niche? Yeah. I I

 

Speaker:00:21:27

it's interesting. I I find that I don't have a problem with, do I have

 

Speaker:00:21:30

the time to commit to a different show? Because usually I'm finding something because I'm

 

Speaker:00:21:33

getting bored of something else. It's it's the time

 

Speaker:00:21:37

to figure out if I'm gonna like it. Right? Because because it

 

Speaker:00:21:41

you know, you listen to the first episode, you you have no familiarity with it.

 

Speaker:00:21:44

Right? Maybe they're inside jokes or, you know, maybe there's something about the personality that

 

Speaker:00:21:48

is just new to you, and it takes a while for you to get so

 

Speaker:00:21:51

comfortable with it that you wanna listen. And, you know, that that's usually

 

Speaker:00:21:54

my struggle is, you know, I know I'm looking for a show about x, and

 

Speaker:00:21:57

I listen to a bunch and I go, Right? Like and then I I

 

Speaker:00:22:01

find myself just going back to the shows that I don't like because at least

 

Speaker:00:22:04

there's that familiarity with it. Isn't that interesting?

 

Speaker:00:22:08

And, you know, we always say, like, with the morning show, with the daily show,

 

Speaker:00:22:11

it's even it's a serious commitment, right, for people to subscribe to that.

 

Speaker:00:22:15

So we always say it takes them people and our our surveys have

 

Speaker:00:22:19

proved this. It takes people about a week to to figure it out

 

Speaker:00:22:23

and to go, okay. I really like this. I'm gonna hang around. They almost have

 

Speaker:00:22:26

to have to listen for a week. Now I would say, though,

 

Speaker:00:22:30

with most podcasts that you try, you determine in the first three minutes whether

 

Speaker:00:22:34

you're gonna hang around or not. You determine in the first three minutes that you're

 

Speaker:00:22:37

not gonna hang around. Right? You may not commit

 

Speaker:00:22:41

to to it for a long term. You may give it more time to do

 

Speaker:00:22:44

that, but in the first three minutes, you're determining whether you're gonna you you bugged

 

Speaker:00:22:48

out if you're totally not into this. And it why? It's because you

 

Speaker:00:22:51

usually don't like the host. Yep. Yep. That that is

 

Speaker:00:22:55

true. Well, we do like this house. We're speaking with Glenn Heber to Glenn McGeek,

 

Speaker:00:22:59

founder of the Horse Radio Network, host of Horses in the Morning.

 

Speaker:00:23:03

Before we let you go, there's three questions that we've been asking everybody about the

 

Speaker:00:23:06

podcasting world. And since you've been in it for so long, I think, you know,

 

Speaker:00:23:09

the audience is gonna find real value in your answers. The first thing is, is

 

Speaker:00:23:13

there a place in podcasting where you would like

 

Speaker:00:23:17

to see some improvement, whether it's from production,

 

Speaker:00:23:21

distribution, marketing, consumption, right, like discovery? What's that

 

Speaker:00:23:24

one thing where you're just like, man, we we still need to fix this?

 

Speaker:00:23:29

I would say, and this has been my preaching for the last

 

Speaker:00:23:33

several years, is we need Apple and the major podcast

 

Speaker:00:23:36

players to segregate out dead shows from active

 

Speaker:00:23:40

shows. There's you know, when you take a look at the

 

Speaker:00:23:43

4,200,000 shows that are out there, what what do

 

Speaker:00:23:47

we see recently? It's almost 400,000 that are active in the last ninety

 

Speaker:00:23:51

days. That's a lot of crap just sitting there that's not being

 

Speaker:00:23:54

updated. And I know when I go look for shows in a specific topic, the

 

Speaker:00:23:57

first thing I look at is, are they still producing? And it's so

 

Speaker:00:24:01

frustrating because you'll go through 20 shows that haven't done an

 

Speaker:00:24:04

episode in in two years and to find the one that's still

 

Speaker:00:24:08

active. So I know we because of,

 

Speaker:00:24:12

you know, seasoned shows like Serial, we can't get rid of those

 

Speaker:00:24:16

shows. They can't just disappear off the podcast player. So I am

 

Speaker:00:24:20

proposing that we have an archived section and an

 

Speaker:00:24:23

active section on podcast players. So you can search

 

Speaker:00:24:27

specifically for active shows. And maybe that's whatever active is determined to

 

Speaker:00:24:31

be. You know, they produced an episode in the last ninety days, six

 

Speaker:00:24:35

months, whatever that is, year. And then you can

 

Speaker:00:24:38

also search the archive shows. I think that's the solution to that

 

Speaker:00:24:42

problem, and I do think it's a problem. It's frustrating. You know,

 

Speaker:00:24:45

that's that's a really interesting idea. And as soon as you said that, I was

 

Speaker:00:24:49

thinking of a few shows that I listened to that were, like, you know, specialized

 

Speaker:00:24:53

niche topics. Like, Rob Reiner did a whole thing on the JFK assassination,

 

Speaker:00:24:56

and, you know, there was, one on

 

Speaker:00:25:00

Uber or Airbnb, right, the rise and fall of these, you know, tech CEOs,

 

Speaker:00:25:04

Jeffrey Epstein kind of stuff. And, like, those are small

 

Speaker:00:25:08

series, and, yes, they haven't put out an episode in two, three years,

 

Speaker:00:25:11

but they're still interesting and topical. My concern to what

 

Speaker:00:25:15

you're saying but I think it's fascinating, interesting, but, you know, what

 

Speaker:00:25:19

we will see now are shows that will have done

 

Speaker:00:25:23

something like that, right, short series, and then they'll just release

 

Speaker:00:25:26

weird stuff every ninety days just to make sure they stay in the good section.

 

Speaker:00:25:30

And and that's why I think that if I were to do it, if I

 

Speaker:00:25:34

was a Pocket Casts, let's for instance. Right? I

 

Speaker:00:25:37

would have the search automatically go to both sections, but then you can

 

Speaker:00:25:41

so the default is everybody, all the shows. But

 

Speaker:00:25:45

then you can you can go, hey. Look. I just wanna search archived, or I

 

Speaker:00:25:49

just wanna search active. So so it's up

 

Speaker:00:25:52

to us as the listener then to have control. And I'm always

 

Speaker:00:25:56

about listeners having control. So I still think

 

Speaker:00:26:00

that's still my biggest pet peeve. Yeah. No. I I like it. I think

 

Speaker:00:26:04

you're frustration from being a listener searching for shows. Yeah. I

 

Speaker:00:26:07

think you're definitely on to something. I I, you know, I think it the bad

 

Speaker:00:26:10

idea needs massaging, but Apple, I know you're listening.

 

Speaker:00:26:15

Get on it. Glenn Glenn is asking you. What about tech? Is

 

Speaker:00:26:19

there any tech on your list, wish list, whether it's something out there

 

Speaker:00:26:22

that you haven't purchased or something that you're like, god, I need somebody to make

 

Speaker:00:26:25

this to make my life easier. Again, production or or

 

Speaker:00:26:29

consumption. You know, I think it was solved for me

 

Speaker:00:26:33

when the Rodecaster, came out and when the

 

Speaker:00:26:37

mixers that are specifically made for podcasting came out.

 

Speaker:00:26:41

That's what solved it for me. The Zoom p four for going to shows.

 

Speaker:00:26:44

So the Zoom p four, I can hook four microphones up to, hook it to

 

Speaker:00:26:48

my laptop, show up at somebody's barn, and I don't even need power.

 

Speaker:00:26:52

And everything runs off battery. I can do an entire episode right

 

Speaker:00:26:56

there in their barn aisle, and I can carry it in

 

Speaker:00:26:59

a small case. So, you know, when

 

Speaker:00:27:03

we first started, we were using music mixers. And to be honest, I didn't

 

Speaker:00:27:07

understand 95% of the buttons on it. Right? I didn't know when any of them

 

Speaker:00:27:11

did. I I didn't wanna know. So when the RODECaster Pros

 

Speaker:00:27:14

and those came out, that that really solved a lot of the problems that

 

Speaker:00:27:18

that I had. So I would say I'm happy with where things are now.

 

Speaker:00:27:22

Microphones, we used to have to pick from one, you know, or

 

Speaker:00:27:26

two. And now we have, you know, a hundred to pick from. And I bought

 

Speaker:00:27:29

a lot of them, and I don't even know what I'm using currently. Yeah. I

 

Speaker:00:27:33

have no idea. I don't care, as little as it sounds. You just

 

Speaker:00:27:37

cycle through a I'm not really a better if you have a stock. Not a

 

Speaker:00:27:39

stuff guy. So it you know, I have content over

 

Speaker:00:27:43

stuff. Fair enough. I I like that idea, by the way, because, yeah, you're in

 

Speaker:00:27:46

barns. How many barns have power outlets? Probably not very many,

 

Speaker:00:27:50

if if not any. So it's a really interesting find. And then with the p

 

Speaker:00:27:54

four, right, the batteries, that that works really nicely. Alright. And then the last

 

Speaker:00:27:57

question is, what is, what podcasts are you listening to

 

Speaker:00:28:01

today? Like, what is that show that when the new episode comes out,

 

Speaker:00:28:05

you are going to stop what you're doing, check it out, or what's

 

Speaker:00:28:08

that show that you know I'm I will not miss an episode.

 

Speaker:00:28:12

I'm still, after thirty years, listening to Bob and Sherry.

 

Speaker:00:28:16

That was the syndicated radio show. Of course, that was a podcast now.

 

Speaker:00:28:20

And they've started other podcasts. And I know the, the producer of

 

Speaker:00:28:24

that show. I've met him at conferences, and we talk all the time. And he

 

Speaker:00:28:27

actually asked me about podcasting stuff. So I listened to that. That's one I

 

Speaker:00:28:31

will not miss. Ironically, I have two daily shows I listen to all the time,

 

Speaker:00:28:34

and that's DT and S, which is the daily tech news show.

 

Speaker:00:28:38

That was Tom Merritt. And I listened to him from probably about twenty

 

Speaker:00:28:41

years ago doing multiple different shows. He's his own network now. They do very well

 

Speaker:00:28:45

with Patreon too. They have about, it was a

 

Speaker:00:28:48

16,000 Patreon subscribers at Daily Tech News Show. They're one of the

 

Speaker:00:28:52

biggest, and they're completely supported by

 

Speaker:00:28:55

Patreon, support. So those two, Bob and Sherry and

 

Speaker:00:28:59

the Daily Tech News Show. And then, of course, ask the podcast coach,

 

Speaker:00:29:03

one of my favorites. And then, of course, School of Podcasting. Dave

 

Speaker:00:29:07

Jackson's been my mentor. He doesn't know it, but he's been my mentor

 

Speaker:00:29:10

since day one, you know, years ago, when I met

 

Speaker:00:29:14

him. So, yeah, those are the ones I listen to religiously. And then

 

Speaker:00:29:17

there are one other two, and I'll mention him because, he's a friend of mine,

 

Speaker:00:29:20

and I love the show, was What Was That Like with Scott

 

Speaker:00:29:24

Johnson. That's an interesting Yeah. Yeah. He gets the weirdest

 

Speaker:00:29:28

stories of people who've been through, like, you know, my parachute didn't open and

 

Speaker:00:29:32

I lived. You know? And then they tell the story, that kind of thing. And

 

Speaker:00:29:35

some are highly selective about his show because some of the things I

 

Speaker:00:29:39

can't listen to. You know? But, he's one of the shows that I can't

 

Speaker:00:29:42

listen to every episode because because I my brain don't handle it.

 

Speaker:00:29:46

But I like that show too. Yeah. You know, I I I remember his

 

Speaker:00:29:50

marketing is so effective because he would put up a a picture or, you

 

Speaker:00:29:54

know, a a big post with words on it, and he would say, right. Like,

 

Speaker:00:29:57

I, you know, jumped out of a plane and my parachute didn't open and I

 

Speaker:00:30:00

lived. You're like, yep. I've got to hear more. Right? Like, it was

 

Speaker:00:30:04

just great FOMO marketing. He has done

 

Speaker:00:30:07

probably better than anybody I know at marketing and also

 

Speaker:00:30:11

creating a community, which we have too, but he's created

 

Speaker:00:30:14

community on Facebook of listeners. He provided them a place to

 

Speaker:00:30:18

go, which is a mistake that a lot of podcasts make because they don't give

 

Speaker:00:30:20

their listeners a place to talk. And he did that, and it's it's

 

Speaker:00:30:24

one of the most active I've seen. It's very active.

 

Speaker:00:30:28

Ours is too. You know? Ours are a lot alike that way, but, yeah,

 

Speaker:00:30:32

we are we've limit our closed group to

 

Speaker:00:30:36

Patreon supporters. So I kinda put a paywall in the way of our

 

Speaker:00:30:40

closed group because I wanted people who are really serious so I'd keep out

 

Speaker:00:30:43

the you know, so there wouldn't be political posts and things like that. Riffraff.

 

Speaker:00:30:47

Yeah. Yeah. And and, you know, that that idea

 

Speaker:00:30:51

of having a community and having it, a paywall to get

 

Speaker:00:30:55

into it is for podcasters who are trying to monetize and don't have

 

Speaker:00:30:58

a budget, a free and easy way to start earning

 

Speaker:00:31:02

money right away. It costs you nothing to start a private

 

Speaker:00:31:05

Facebook group and to just invite people in. Yes, it's a little bit slower,

 

Speaker:00:31:09

but, right, somebody somebody will pay you $510 20 for

 

Speaker:00:31:13

access to a group that provides value versus hoping that you

 

Speaker:00:31:17

get 5,000 downloads and have an advertiser pay you $25 for

 

Speaker:00:31:21

every thousand you get. So, great great mention, great callback to,

 

Speaker:00:31:25

the power of community and and whatnot, and my god, great advice. We could probably

 

Speaker:00:31:28

do this for six days and, still not go through all the knowledge that you

 

Speaker:00:31:32

have, but we have been listening to Glenn Hebert, Glenn the Geek,

 

Speaker:00:31:36

founder of the Horse Radio Network, host of Horses in the

 

Speaker:00:31:40

Morning. And if you have never been to Podfest

 

Speaker:00:31:43

in Orlando, I implore you to go. You can

 

Speaker:00:31:47

just go. Always there, and he's always doing something to make

 

Speaker:00:31:51

the crowd laugh and to put on a good show, and, you know, go there

 

Speaker:00:31:55

and say hi to him. He's he's a great great person,

 

Speaker:00:31:58

and really appreciate your time today. Thank you so much. Thanks, Matthew. Thanks

 

Speaker:00:32:02

for joining us today on Podcasting Tech. There are links to all the

 

Speaker:00:32:06

hardware and software that help power our guest content and

 

Speaker:00:32:09

podcasting tech available in the show notes and on our website

 

Speaker:00:32:13

at podcastingtech.com. You can also subscribe to the show on your

 

Speaker:00:32:17

favorite platform, connect with us on social media, and even leave a rating and review

 

Speaker:00:32:21

while you're there. Thanks, and we'll see you next time on Podcasting

 

Speaker:00:32:25

Tech.