How to Thrive and Stand Out in Today's Podcasting World with Caroline Hull

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Welcome to Podcasting Tech, a podcast that equips busy

 

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entrepreneurs engaged in podcasting with proven and cost effective

 

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solutions for achieving a professional sound and appearance. I'm

 

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Matthew Passi, your host and a fifteen year veteran in the podcasting

 

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space. We'll help you cut through the noise and offer guidance on software and

 

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hardware that can elevate the quality of your show. Tune in weekly

 

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for insightful interviews with tech creators, behind the scenes studio tours, and

 

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strategies for podcasting success. Head to

 

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podcastingtech.com to subscribe to this show on YouTube or your favorite

 

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podcast platform, and join us on this exciting journey to unlock the full

 

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potential of your podcast. Taking you out

 

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to Colorado today, we are chatting with Caroline Hull. She's a

 

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podcast business strategist at Wild Home Podcasting.

 

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You can find her at wildhomepodcasting.com. Caroline, thank

 

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you so much for joining us today. Thank you so much for having me.

 

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It is a pleasure to chat with you and, you know, we always like to

 

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talk to people about how they kinda made their way into podcasting, and

 

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yours is interesting because you started in a completely different

 

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industry. You talk about being in ballet and choreography. So how do you

 

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turn Love of That into a podcast business?

 

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Yeah. I don't think we have enough time to go through the whole journey.

 

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But I so through a series of events,

 

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I was actually a greeting card designer. So I had

 

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done ballet. That was my major in college. I was injured,

 

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had to move back home, did some grant writing,

 

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did some various jobs, decided to design my own wedding

 

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invitations, started a greeting card company. So I was in the

 

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creator, maker, greeting card world, happened to be in a forum one day. I

 

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mean, this is almost ten years ago, and was like, I think it would be

 

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cool to start a podcast. And somebody commented and said, yeah. I think it would

 

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be cool to start a podcast too, but I don't wanna do it by myself.

 

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And so without even knowing each other, we started a podcast, and

 

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we grew, a wonderful podcast. We grew a huge

 

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community. We had products associated with that podcast. It was called the

 

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Creative Biz Rebellion. My cohost was Kelly. She was amazing.

 

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And then just because of life events, we ended up, not doing that

 

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anymore. But during the course of working on that

 

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podcast, I became, like, the back end

 

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person. I ran everything that had to do with the podcast on

 

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the back end. She was, like, the face. She did the course creation, all of

 

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that. And we would have people on the show, and they would be like,

 

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oh, do you edit podcast? And I'd be like, well. And it

 

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just snowballed from there. And before I knew it, I had a podcast agency.

 

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That's amazing. And, yeah, that that's so many so many

 

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production companies and agencies start the exact same way, right? They're

 

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handling it for themselves or, you know, maybe they're helping out a friend and next

 

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thing you know, someone like, I really like your work. Can you do it for

 

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me? You're like, I guess so. Yeah. Why don't we why don't we do

 

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that? So in this day and age, right, there's been

 

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all this writing about the the burst of the podcasting bubble,

 

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the demise of the podcasting, blah blah blah. Yeah. I don't feel that way

 

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either. But I guess I'm curious where you're at

 

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as far as, you know, how you view the industry right now, how you view

 

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the space. Like, what is the opportunity for podcasters? And

 

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I understand that, you know, most of your clients are really brands and small

 

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businesses who are using this. It's not just, you know, hey. I like to chat.

 

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Let me get my friend on the podcast, and we'll talk and, you know, be

 

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cool. But, right, there's there's a little bit more objective behind it. So what do

 

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you see with the podcasters you're working with? Yeah. You know, I think it's

 

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really interesting because I feel like

 

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even though people are talking about, you know, like you

 

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said, the demise of podcasting, I'm seeing a lot of growth on my

 

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end, not just in opportunity, but in

 

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listenership. And I know that there was a survey that came

 

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out, at the beginning of or towards the end of last

 

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year, and it showed that listenership had actually grown.

 

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And the cool thing is that is that listenership is growing among women,

 

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which works really well for me because I mostly work with female business owners

 

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who are using their podcast as a piece of their marketing.

 

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What I think is so special about podcasting, even with

 

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all the video that is going on with YouTube and short form

 

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video kind of bursting into the scene and being how a lot of people are

 

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interacting, There's something so special about literally

 

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having people in your ear chatting. And what I think

 

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is so incredible about the medium is being able to sit down and really refine

 

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your messaging. And so for my clients, what they're able to do

 

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is use their podcast as a bridge between that video content,

 

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between that short form content to their actual

 

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services, to their business, that sort of thing. I've

 

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also really found that using it strategically and having, like you said, an

 

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objective, a goal for your podcast, is so much more

 

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helpful for business owners than just sitting down and recording episodes and hoping that

 

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someone listens. I definitely think that there is room to

 

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stand out and really find your niche in podcasting right now.

 

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I just saw a number the other day that was like, there's only

 

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381,000 active podcasts out

 

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of the, you know, million that are actually in the apps.

 

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And so to me, that just screams opportunity. And

 

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so that's really what I work on people with is finding their niche, getting really

 

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clear on their messaging so that the right people are finding them. So

 

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when you say this strategy, right, we we used to work with clients as well.

 

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And for some of those clients, it was just, let me get guests on the

 

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show and that'll be a networking opportunity, or let me put this stuff out there

 

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and make myself look cool and smarter and, you know, bigger than I

 

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actually am. But you're really talking about the

 

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show itself, like the strategy behind what content you put out

 

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there, how you organize the episodes, what are some of the things that you

 

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think about? What are some of the questions that you will ask of your

 

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clients and hosts about, you know, formulating that

 

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strategy? I think the biggest thing is

 

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once shifting your mindset. So instead of thinking of your podcast

 

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as being this entity that sits over here, which a lot of

 

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people do. So they'll have their Instagram strategy. They'll have their email

 

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marketing strategy. They may even have a blog, and then they're like,

 

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a podcast, and it's a completely separate thing. I like to pull it all

 

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together, have it all work together, and really think of it as

 

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part of the funnel. So it's not just a standalone thing that

 

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sits over here. I hope people click. We actually are using it. We're

 

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driving people from Instagram to the podcast to our opt in,

 

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and then there's things that happen on the back end from there. The other thing

 

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I like to think about with content, especially, is what's going on in your business?

 

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What are your business goals? What are you working on right now? What are you

 

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promoting right now? And how can you create content around that? How can you

 

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create content that makes your ideal client feel seen and

 

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heard in a way that they're not feeling seen and heard in a thirty second

 

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video on Instagram? And so we really focus on creating I like to

 

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call it content that converts. So, creating

 

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content that hooks people in, shows them why

 

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they might be experiencing this thing, tells them how, and then directs

 

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them to something else that is within your business that's gonna lead to even

 

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something else. So it really is, like, using your podcast as

 

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a funnel and thinking about it in that way and less

 

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of I'm just creating episodes. So you describe,

 

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your strategy as profit over downloads. Right? We're we're too

 

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focused on some of the wrong metrics. So what are the metrics

 

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that you look at, and how

 

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often do your clients see the kind of success that I think they were

 

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hoping for? Or maybe they are surprised by, you know, how much success they get

 

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off of this product? Because I think there is some frustration in the world with,

 

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you know, the the ROI on podcasting. So many

 

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people either can't see it, can't draw the line, or they're

 

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not getting it, and I'm sure it's more an issue with strategy,

 

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but, you know, what what can they learn from you and how you work with

 

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clients? I really think that business owners come

 

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into podcasting thinking, if I get a million downloads,

 

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I will become famous and everybody will buy my things. Like,

 

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I think there's this mentality of I need to get tons of

 

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downloads so that way people will actually buy my things.

 

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And what I like to focus on is what is your actual goal? Are you

 

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trying to grow your membership? Are you trying to book more one on one clients?

 

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What is the growth that you wanna see in that area? What's interesting is

 

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when you shift your focus from the downloads to creating

 

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content specifically for the purpose of your business

 

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goals, you're going to see business, podcast growth.

 

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You're gonna see those downloads go up because your content is more niche.

 

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It's reaching the right people. You're doing growth activities around

 

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your podcast that support not just growing the podcast,

 

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but also your marketing and business goals. I have a

 

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client that I worked with. We did a complete refresh of her podcast

 

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and strategy. She was actually an Instagram strategist. So I

 

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was like, okay, this is gonna be interesting working with somebody who's really good at

 

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doing short form content. She had a podcast. It wasn't really working for

 

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her. And she just posted on her Instagram, actually, the

 

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other day the graph of the growth of her podcast

 

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since working with me because her content is so much more aligned

 

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now to what she's trying to achieve. And so she's

 

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actually grown exponentially in downloads while

 

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also booking more clients from her podcast. So

 

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I really think that it's important when you're a business owner, you're

 

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creating a podcast, that you're coming at it from, what

 

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is my goal? Is my goal just to get downloads?

 

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Is my goal to grow my email list? Is my goal to grow my membership?

 

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Because that's really gonna help you determine the type of content you create and

 

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how you talk about your offers or services, those kinds of things

 

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within the episodes. So I

 

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hear what you're saying, I totally agree, you know, spot on, same advice

 

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I think I and many, many others in our position would give to

 

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clients and how they would approach it. The the next question, the one that I

 

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think is hard and and this Instagram person might be a

 

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great kinda case study for her because of what it is that she

 

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does, as well. How do you

 

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right. We don't need the million downloads, but still, how do you

 

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get your content in front of the right people?

 

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What are right. Like, you can have the best strategy, the best

 

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questions, the best guess, but if, you know, a podcast falls

 

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in the woods and nobody hears it, right, does it have an impact?

 

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And so what is it that you see as being

 

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the most effective way for brands to get

 

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people to, forget download, just

 

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to know about focus, pay attention, right, care about the content

 

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that they're putting out there. Yeah. I really think that having a

 

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growth strategy is is an important piece of any podcast strategy.

 

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And beyond, like, focusing on things like SEO and creating great

 

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content, I like to do what it what I like to call

 

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audience borrowing. So the thing about

 

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podcast is there is an audience out there who wants to hear your

 

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podcast. And like you said, they have to know about it. And so one of

 

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the best things you can do if you're just starting out and you're

 

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wanting to grow your audience is get on other podcasts because

 

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people who are listening to podcasts wanna listen to more podcasts.

 

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But you really have to be strategic about it. So who has an

 

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audience similar to me? I have found that collaborations,

 

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networking, guesting on other podcasts, having

 

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guests on my podcast strategically, so not just having

 

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someone on because I think they're gonna help boost my downloads, but someone that is

 

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maybe has a similar audience and really is gonna bring some value to my audience

 

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also helps me grow my podcast. I am not one of those people

 

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who's like, you need to go out and run a bunch of ads in order

 

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to grow your podcast and get in front of the right ears. I really think

 

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it is about, like I said, collaborating,

 

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networking, borrowing people's audiences, and doing it in a way that

 

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feels like it's not taking over your life. It's not

 

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taking over your podcast. And if you're really strategic about it, it can

 

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work for you. So one of the things that this client that I mentioned

 

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that she did was, and she's actually, like, a

 

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super great example. Her name is Elizabeth Marbury, if anybody wants to go follow her

 

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her Instagram. So she had a huge Instagram following, and

 

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nobody was going from her Instagram to her podcast. I mean, I'm

 

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talking, she has like thousands of people who follow her on

 

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Instagram. She used to be a wedding dance coach, and now she's an Instagram

 

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strategist. So she dances in all of her videos. They're amazing.

 

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And so that was part of what we talked about was like, how are we

 

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gonna lead people from Instagram to your

 

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podcast? And it really was about weaving in

 

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the content, repurposing the content from the podcast episodes, but

 

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also, like, how are we talking about the podcast on our Instagram? So

 

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definitely go check out how she does it because it's pretty incredible. You'll notice

 

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that she never really mentioned she has a podcast. It's in her bio,

 

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and she just posted something about her podcast. But, generally, when she's posting, like,

 

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go listen to my podcast, it's more of go check out my

 

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free guide on how to do this. Because I think what we forget

 

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is that these podcast episodes are packed full of

 

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free information. Like, you don't need to be creating tons of PDF

 

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freebies. You have this podcast. You have this library of

 

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knowledge sitting over here and somebody can seriously bench through them

 

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and learn so much. And so utilizing it. So I think,

 

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you know, between that and working on a visibility strategy that

 

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works for you, those are the two things that I really try and focus on

 

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with my clients in building their audience. Love it. By the way, if you wanna

 

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check her out, she is looks like at Elizabeth Marbury, m

 

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a r b e r r y. Her podcast is called Strut

 

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It if you want to check that out. Before we get to the

 

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questions that I like to ask everybody, you brought up, you know, your focus of

 

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working with mostly women clients and, you know, you bring up Elizabeth

 

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here as a good example of what's going on and the opportunities for women in

 

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podcasting. What advice do you

 

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give or what advice would you give to women who are thinking about

 

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podcasting and worrying that, you know, they're gonna get drowned

 

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out or they're not gonna be able to break through the the, you know, the

 

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proverbial podcast ceiling? And also,

 

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what would you say to men in the podcasting space as far

 

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as how they can take advantage of, you know, this trend of

 

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women both engaging in podcasting and

 

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podcast listening, not that that's new, but, right, the numbers just continue to creep

 

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up. Yeah. But also, you know, getting in on the content creation

 

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side. Yeah. I think

 

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that the biggest piece of advice I have is that your

 

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voice is super important. Your perspective is super important. A

 

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way I tell my clients all the time is there is someone out there who's

 

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looking for you, who is looking for your content,

 

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who is looking for exactly what you're saying, and they can't find

 

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it. I mentioned, like, how important it is to feel seen and

 

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heard in other people's content. And I really think that's

 

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true, especially of women in podcasting, and I think that's why it's

 

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so incredibly important for us to use our voices and to share

 

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them. I think that

 

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confidence doesn't come right away. So I always like to tell

 

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people that I'm an INFJ. If you've ever read the Myers

 

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Briggs, I am like the extreme introvert. I

 

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was you know, I I feel like I was definitely one of those people

 

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who was raised in the environment of it's better to be seen and

 

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not heard. And so I really didn't have confidence in my voice. Podcasting

 

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gave me that. Pod podcasting is how I

 

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learned to cultivate my voice, to be strong in my

 

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perspectives, to not be afraid to share. And so

 

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dive in. You know, that's the great thing about podcasting too. It's audio only.

 

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You can hide behind your microphone when you first get started. If you're not ready

 

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for video and build that confidence, use it to help refine your

 

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messaging and you will stand out. And I think as far as women

 

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just in the podcasting industry, I

 

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think it's just really important that we we hold space and we

 

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hold space for everyone. And it's been really exciting

 

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for me in the last couple of years to see the amount of women who

 

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are podcasting, the amount of women who are in podcast marketing

 

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and strategy. I feel like that's grown so much and

 

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I think it's only gonna continue to grow. And I think just holding space

 

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for them, like, you know, being on podcasts like this is so

 

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cool for me because I know that when I started podcasting, there were

 

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not a lot of voices like mine out there. So, yeah, I

 

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think it's just really neat to see how the industry is growing and changing and

 

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evolving, and I'm excited to see where it goes from here. Love

 

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it. As a reminder, we are chatting with Caroline Hall. She's the podcast business

 

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strategist at Wild Home Podcasting. The link

 

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is wildhomepodcasting.com. Caroline, before we let you go, the

 

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questions we'd like to ask everybody. First up, is there a place in the world

 

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of podcasting, and this could be recording, production,

 

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distribution, marketing, consumption, but is there something that you

 

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would wanna see changed, in the podcasting

 

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space, to make it easier or better?

 

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Oh, gosh. I I think the thing that I

 

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am curious to see is accessibility and how

 

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that evolves. I think that a lot there has

 

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been so much evolution in the technology that a lot of things on

 

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podcasting are so much easier than they used to be. I remember when I started,

 

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I had to Google for days to find out any information, and I was like,

 

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what is an RSS feed? And stuff is so much

 

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easier to do yourself now, which I think is incredible. We have

 

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tools like Descript and ChatGPT. But I think that the thing

 

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that I'm really excited to see improvement on is,

 

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how people are able to consume podcast who maybe

 

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cannot listen to it or don't have the ability to do that. I know that

 

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Apple Podcasts recently added, transcription, which I was,

 

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like, so excited to see, and I'd love to see that across the board and

 

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in other places. So, yeah, that's the thing that I think still needs improvement, and

 

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I'd love to see improved. Love it. What about

 

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your technology wish list? Is there a piece of

 

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hardware or a piece of software that either is out there that

 

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you wanna buy that you haven't or something that hasn't been made yet that you'd

 

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love to see created to make your life as either

 

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the strategist or as a podcaster easier?

 

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I just wish there was, like, a magical tool

 

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like Descript Studio Sound and

 

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my lovely super complicated iZotope

 

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software that, like, work together. Because as much

 

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as I love Descript and studio sound, it doesn't do all the things.

 

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And, you know, my clients, they love Descript,

 

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but when we're editing for people, we're still pulling stuff into iZotope and running

 

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all kinds of filters. And I would love I think that we're getting

 

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closer to there being easier things, but, you

 

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know, there's gotta be some kind of combination of the two

 

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for regular people. I think that would be amazing. Love

 

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that. And finally, are there any particular podcasts,

 

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a few, one or two that you will absolutely

 

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stop what you're doing and listen to when a new episode drops or, you know,

 

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you're not gonna let them go, unlisten to in your

 

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feed? Yes. Yes. One of my

 

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favorites is, one of the

 

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podcasts, like literally any podcast that BBC puts

 

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out. Like they have a fantastic series called, which I

 

Speaker:00:20:16

love stuff like that. So it's so funny because I work on business podcasts,

 

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but I do not listen to business podcasts. I actually love to listen to like

 

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storytelling documentary style podcast. I think somewhere

 

Speaker:00:20:28

in my future, there's a documentary podcast in my future. My daughter and

 

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I have talked about starting one about space. So anytime BBC

 

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puts out anything, I'm like, let me listen to that. And then the newsworthy,

 

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if you are not listening to the newsworthy, I highly recommend it. It's Erica

 

Speaker:00:20:43

Mandy. It's the news in, like, ten minutes. She covers

 

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everything you need to hear, and it's not biased. It's just the

 

Speaker:00:20:51

news, and I love it. I'm trying to do a news detox right

 

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now. And so having her podcast available every morning, she

 

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releases a new episode. Like, I would love to just be a fly on the

 

Speaker:00:21:01

wall on how she does that. So, definitely go check her out because it's

 

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amazing. Love it. It's the newsworthy. We will drop a link in here for

 

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anybody who wants to check it out as well. Carolyn Hull,

 

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podcast business strategist at Wild Tone Podcasting, thank you so much for

 

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joining us today. Today. Thank you so much. This was so fun. Thanks for

 

Speaker:00:21:20

joining us today on Podcasting Tech. There are links to all the

 

Speaker:00:21:23

hardware and software that help power our guest content and

 

Speaker:00:21:27

podcasting tech available in the show notes and on our website at

 

Speaker:00:21:31

podcastingtech.com. You can also subscribe to the show on your

 

Speaker:00:21:34

favorite platform, connect with us on social media, and even leave a rating and review

 

Speaker:00:21:38

while you're there. Thanks, and we'll see you next time on Podcasting

 

Speaker:00:21:42

Tech.