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Dec. 10, 2024
Top Tips for Cost-Effective Podcasting With Sarah St John
Top Tips for Cost-Effective Podcasting With Sarah St John
Are you looking to elevate your podcast while keeping costs low? You're in the right place. Today on Podcasting Tech, we feature an expert in budget-friendly podcasting and effective marketing techniques.
Sarah St John, a seasoned entrepreneur, podcaster, and author, joins us to share invaluable insights from her journey. Sarah hosts a Top 100 Entrepreneurial Podcast on Apple called the Frugalpreneur podcast. She also owns a podcast marketing agency aptly called Podcast Marketing Agency.
Host, Mathew Passy chats with Sarah St John about her entry into podcasting, her successful methods for growing a podcast on a budget, and her new venture in podcast marketing.
Main topics covered in the episode:
- Sarah St John’s journey into podcasting and the creation of Frugalpreneur.
- Early investments and budgeting tips for starting a podcast.
- Strategies that contributed to Sarah's podcasting success, including thematic mini-series and securing notable guests.
- How the podcasting landscape has evolved with new technologies and shorter episode formats.
- Key mistakes podcasters make and how to avoid them, such as optimizing cover art and episode titles.
- An innovative approach to podcast marketing that includes Times Square billboards and other unique promotional tactics.
Why this episode is important:
Whether you're just starting or looking to refine your podcast, Sarah's pragmatic approach offers actionable advice to maximize your resources effectively. She is well-versed in cost-efficient strategies to help businesses and podcasts thrive. Let's engage in a conversation about cutting-edge marketing tactics and essential strategies every podcaster should know.
IN THIS EPISODE, WE COVER:
- Sarah’s journey into podcasting: From the creation of Frugalpreneur to flourishing beyond her initial book launch.
- Strategies for early success: Examples include topical mini-series and featuring notable guests like Pat Flynn and John Lee Dumas.
- Importance of shorter episodes: How Sarah improved her completion rates and overall podcast ranking.
- Conducting effective podcast audits: Steps to improve cover art, episode descriptions, and search engine optimization (SEO).
- Innovative marketing tactics: Utilizing Times Square billboards and the potential for podcasters.
Links and resources mentioned in this episode:
- Frugalpreneur Podcast
- Frugalpreneur Book
- Sarah’s Podcast Marketing Agency
- Recommended hardware: Audio Technica ATR2100 USB microphone
Join us next time on Podcasting Tech, and don't forget to subscribe on your favorite platform or follow us on social media. Your journey to unlocking the full potential of your podcast starts now!
**As an Amazon Associate, we may earn commissions from qualifying purchases of podcasting gear from Amazon.com. We also participate in affiliate programs with many of the software services mentioned on our website. If you purchase something through the links we provide, we may earn a commission at no extra cost to you. The team at Podcasting Tech only recommends products and services that we would use ourselves and that we believe will provide value to our viewers and readers.**
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Transcript
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Welcome to Podcasting Tech, a podcast that equips busy
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entrepreneurs engaged in podcasting with proven and cost effective
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solutions for achieving a professional sound and appearance.
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I'm Matthew Passi, your host and a 15 year veteran in the podcasting
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space. We'll help you cut through the noise and offer guidance on software and
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hardware that can elevate the quality of your show. Tune in weekly
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for insightful interviews with tech creators, behind the scenes studio tours, and
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strategies for podcasting success. Head to podcasting tech dot
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com to subscribe to this show on YouTube or your favorite podcast platform,
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and join us on this exciting journey to unlock the full potential of your
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podcast. Heading down to Dallas,
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Texas, where we are chatting with Sarah Saint John. She is an
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entrepreneur, podcaster, and an author. She runs a podcast
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frugalpreneur, and she also has a podcast marketing
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agency, which you can find at podcast marketing dot
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agency. We're gonna talk to her all about that and her journey in podcasting.
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Sarah, thank you so much for joining us today. Thanks so much for having me.
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I appreciate it. So what was your journey
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into podcasting in the beginning? Right? What what made you pick up a
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microphone and and start doing this stuff? Yeah.
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So, I had actually written a book called
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frugalpreneur, and I decided kind of at the last
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minute to, like, create a podcast to coincide with a
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book to it was only gonna be, like, 10 episodes,
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though. And, basically, I was interviewing the different CEOs or
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someone from the different companies of some of the different
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companies I talked about in the book because the book is about, like, different ways
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to make money online and, and what tools and
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resources and software I recommend to do it on a budget or for free
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even. And so, but it was just gonna be an
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extra marketing avenue, or more exposure.
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But, actually, the podcast did a lot better and took off more than the book
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did. And I love the the, the connections I was
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making, the networking, the conversations, even the friendships. So
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I've kept it going, and it's been over 5 years now.
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Awesome. And just for everyone listening, the book is frugalpreneur,
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building a business on a bootstrapped budget. And I'm sure for
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podcasters, a bootstrap budget is a very common thing that they are
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working with. What were some of your early investments that you made to
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produce the podcast, and, you know, where did you look to save money in
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doing so? Yeah. So the podcast I
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mean, the nice thing about having a podcast for your business is
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that I think a lot of people assume that it's
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expensive because they're thinking of it in
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terms of, like, a broadcast studio, you know, or a radio
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station. But, you know, you can obviously get started for under a $100
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for a podcast. I I bought, like, the cheapest mic I could find or
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the cheapest good mic, which was an
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ATR 21100. And then I
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started out hosting on Spreaker, which I think was
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free, and then it started I think it went up to, like, $7 a
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month or something. Now I'm on Captivate. But, you
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know, so, really, I was paying, like, under $10 a month
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to, you know, pay the initial 60, 70, whatever for the
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mic. USB mic goes right into your computer. So,
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yeah, the startup costs were very low.
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And, I mean, obviously, everybody in the podcast industry knows that.
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But I think people who are getting started, they assume
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that it's gonna cost more than that. So Yeah. I
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mean, there's definitely a lot of literature out there that talks about
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expensive home studios, expensive software, expensive
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talent, hiring, engineers, hiring producers, all that stuff. But,
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really you can do it. I mean, really, if you have no budget, you can
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pick up your smartphone and start doing it. Now it's not going to be the
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same quality as others, but right. There's nothing that can stop you from
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capturing content and putting it out there to, to get yourself started.
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Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. What were some of the
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so you said you were having success with the podcast. What were some of the
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things that you did early on that you think
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led you to that success? Was it simply having the right
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content at the right time, or were there little tricks and
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tips and things that you were doing that, really helped you out?
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I think there are a few different things. I had had different, like,
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series, like, topical series. Like, maybe for a week, I would put out
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an episode every day on the topic of podcasting, and then
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the next week, maybe, on self publishing. So I kinda had,
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like, topical, like, miniseries within the
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podcast, that people, I think, seem to enjoy.
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But then, also, I was able to get fairly big names,
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pretty quick in, like Pat Flynn, John Lee
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Dumas, Mike Michalowicz, all that. And
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I think that also helped a little bit,
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at least with the authority factor, you know, like, the credibility of the
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podcast and whatnot. But, yeah, so those are some things that
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I did, and I interviewed a lot of
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so my show is kind of a variety. It's, like, mostly interview
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style, but there's also some solo episodes, and then there's
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some that are, like,
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maybe like a 5 minute episode about a particular
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software that I use and recommend to run my business on a budget.
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But yeah. So just kind of, I think, the variety as well. It wasn't
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just one type of show. I think
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that kind of sparked interest. So, like, some people, if they're into
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interview style, they listed those. Some people feel like solo, shorter episodes,
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listen to those. So yeah. Has the
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strategy or has your thoughts on how
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to podcast change to those 5 years or, you
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know, with the advent of new software,
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hardware, you know, platforms, like, what have
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been some of the changes you've seen in podcasting, and and how much has
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that impacted the way you go about doing it? Yeah. So
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probably it was over a year ago, I had noticed that because
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I check my analytics every day. And I noticed
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that I suddenly had an instant increase in downloads. And I was trying to
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figure out what why was that? I mean, I go on other podcasts, but, like,
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I hadn't been a guest on some big podcast that would maybe,
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you know, that many people would come over and download. So I was trying to
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figure it out, and so I told some podcast friends, and they actually
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looked on the charts. And I was in the well, at that day, I was
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in the top 200, and then the next day, it was, like, the top 100
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in Apple Podcasts under entrepreneurship. And I was trying to
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figure out, well, why or how? Well, one thing that
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I noticed when going back to my analytics was that
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the episodes I had had kinda leading up to that
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were much shorter, and so, therefore, they had a higher
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completion rate. Like, people actually listen to, like, 90 plus
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percent versus, like, I don't know, 40 or 50% or
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whatever. And so I don't I
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assume that must have played some kind of factor. But so ever
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since then, I've I have been I still do long form
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interviews, but I do a lot more shorter episodes too
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because the completion rate, is so much higher. So I guess
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that's one strategy or one thing that I'm starting to do differently
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is, more
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episodes that are shorter or just, like, solo episodes.
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Okay. When did you decide that
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you wanted to not just produce your own podcast, but then start
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to help others in the podcasting space? So that's
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been kind of in my head for at least a couple years, but
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my initial thought was to do podcast production because I
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produce my own show. I always have. And I was like, well, I could get
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paid to do this for other people, but it just
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my passion wasn't in it, I guess. I tried it, and I was like,
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so but what I really enjoy and where my passion is is in, like, the
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marketing side of things and finding out
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the different ways to get either more downloads, more listeners, or
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get publicity or PR for your podcast,
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you know, things like that. And so that's now where I help people
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versus, like, the production end of things. And that's also been kinda good
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because there's tons of podcast production agencies,
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but I can think of less than a handful that I'm
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aware of of, like, specifically podcast marketing agencies. And
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then I've reached out to different production agencies, you
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know, that don't offer marketing services, to let
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them know that I could, like, they could either refer me
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out and vice versa, or I could even white label for them or whatever.
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So I feel like it's kind of open more opportunities or
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doors as well. So when
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you are approaching a client for the first time who wants to work with
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you as far as marketing assistance, what are some of the things that you
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are looking for? Looking at, like, I assume it's not
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a one size fits all strategy for everyone.
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Yeah. I mean, the first step is always an audit, I recommend,
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where I go through and just listen to their episodes, cover
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art, their descriptions, their show notes, their website, their social media
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presence, you know, all of these different aspects and kinda
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see where they could improve to,
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you know, could be as simple as the new cover art or or whatever,
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but see where there's those initial areas that they could improve
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to either be more searchable and findable or
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me be more appealing. And I keep the
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audience listening longer and get people to actually
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share the podcast or refer the podcast
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out and say, hey. You need to listen to this podcast, because I feel
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like word-of-mouth is definitely one of the best
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ways. And then, you know, looking at their marketing
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strategy and trying to find ways that either they
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can collaborate with other podcasters,
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whether it's like feed drops or promo swaps
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or, like, maybe there's a newsletter that
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they could be in that's, like if their podcast is about a
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particular topic or niche, obviously. Let's say they they have
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a podcast about pets or something,
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because we were just talking about pets before we started. So that's why it's on
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my mind. But, if there are other podcasts
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about pets, you know, doing the whole drop
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drop and swap. But if there's newsletters about
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pets, you know, finding a way to be
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in those newsletters or blog posts
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or, just different ways to get press
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for the podcast, for audiences
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that would be interested in that topic, of
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course. What do you find in doing these
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audits that is the biggest mistake podcasters are making? A lot
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of times, it's cover art because the first step, really, I feel like,
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is cover art because if someone's scrolling through a podcast player and your
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cover art doesn't stand out or get someone to click, then the rest
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is irrelevant. But I would say cover art, but also
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how they name the episodes.
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That's also a big one. You know, a lot of people will
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just have, like, the guest name on the episode title or or something like
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that, but it won't actually explain what they're talking about in
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the episode or what the listener will get out of listening.
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And then, I I would say those are the 2 big things.
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Also, maybe the description, it's not long enough.
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It's not SEO friendly, or there's more
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keywords that they could include. Another mistake
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is people don't have a website for their podcast.
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I I would say those are kind of podcast.
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I I would say those are kind of very common
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issues. So, yeah, I used to do podcast audits as well
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and talk to folks about marketing. And you said something that
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I think is very true is that most of
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us discover or start to listen to a new podcast from the recommendation of
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others. Right. Someone we know like or trust says, oh, Hey,
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Sarah, I know you're into blah, blah, blah. You should check out this. Or you
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listen to a show from a trusted authority and they say, Hey, I'm talking to
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Sarah on the podcast, you should check out her show and write that that gives
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a lot of authority and and convince people to go over it. As a
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podcaster, what do you think is the best way to
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turn listeners or anybody in your,
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you know, potential network into your advocate?
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So you could have this is kinda tricky,
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but you could have some sort of, like, affiliate or
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referral program, though the only way that's gonna work is if you have a
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product or service, to actually get people to refer
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just your podcast. I mean, that's kinda hard. But
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I think making, like, a game out of it, like,
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even giving out shirts or stickers or whatever
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to different podcast listeners for them to either
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wear, and then that's how they you know, it's a free shirt for them, and
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your, podcast is getting attention because they're wearing
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it, and someone might ask them about it. But, but
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just, like, rewarding, like, giving a shout out,
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I think, is a big one, whether it's on a
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podcast episode or in social media or email.
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But, yeah, just coming up with fun ways to kind of engage
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and interact and even creating, like,
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you could have, like, a Voxer or fan list. There's these these
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different platforms where you can, like, exchange voice mail,
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so to speak. I think that's also a
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good thing to do as well.
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I think the more engaged you are with your listener
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and, the more likely they are to share
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and and and and maybe even do q and a sessions as well.
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I know some people do that. I always like the idea
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of, you know, communicating with your listeners. A lot of folks think
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I'm in front of a microphone. This is a one way street, but real successful
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podcasters, they do communicate, they do chat, they do engage with the
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folks who they work, who are listening to their show, who
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comment on their show, who like their show, who do anything to interact and let
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them know that they are there and, you know, creating that
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engagement, creating that relationship tends to, pay
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dividends, in the end. What are some of the
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the new or, you know, what are some of
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the upcoming trends in podcast marketing that we should be keeping an eye out
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for? Okay. So this is one
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that I that I've recently been talking
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about that I think is just a fun thing to do is,
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like, Times Square billboards. Yeah.
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With your, like, with your cover art and then a QR code next to it.
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And you can a lot of people assume that getting a billboard in Times Square
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costs 1,000 of dollars, but it actually can be as low as a
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150. There's, like, different, like,
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welcome to timesquare.com, I believe. And,
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there there's, like, a handful of different companies that do this,
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where it's a digital billboard, and you can book
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a slot. And, basically, it'll display your ad
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for 15 seconds every hour for
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24 hours. And How much was that? A
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150. Oh, that's not a thing. I know. It
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is. It's not a and so I I recommend, you
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know, if people are gonna do that, to try to go to New York or
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or if you're already going to New York, wait. Plan around your visit that you're
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already planning, and then try to get, like, a selfie or video of
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you with it. But if not, they do have,
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what do you call it? Like, a live a live
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stream. I don't know. I was gonna say screen share with it.
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Yeah. A live stream of it. So you can at least snap a
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shot of it. Like Yeah. Do you have a sense of when each hour it's
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going to happen, or it's, you know, luck of the draw?
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No. Yeah. You just know what day. And then, of course,
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it's for 15 second 15 seconds every
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hour. So, yeah, you might have to stand around for
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a little bit. But I mean, I'm gonna be in New York tomorrow, so
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I'm just gonna be trying to do this. I don't know. Well,
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I'll, if I get this done, I'll share a link with everybody and I'll I'll
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share a screenshot of me in front of the the billboard talking about what it
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is that we're going to put on there. So that is, that is very
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cool. Thank you for that resource, and we'll include a link so that
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you, the audience, can find it as well on your own and, try to try
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to check that out. We are chatting with Sarah Saint John,
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entrepreneur, podcaster, and author. As a reminder, the podcast and book are
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both titled frugalpreneur. And if you are looking for
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some help with your marketing efforts, you can check out podcast marketing
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dot agency. So, Sarah, when we have people on the show, we
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always like to ask everybody the same three questions, and then kinda curious to get
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your take, especially given your time in the podcasting industry
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and how you work with others. So first off I I'm
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asking, is there a place where you would like to see improvement in podcasting
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overall? Like whether it's discovery distribution,
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things like that. I would like
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to see Apple and you know, the big ones,
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Apple, Spotify. And I it might be Spotify
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is doing this now, but where you can actually, like, communicate with listeners where they
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can comment on the episode. I
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thought I heard Spotify might be doing that. I'm not sure if that's
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There are. Yeah. There is now some commenting and messaging features, in in
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the Spotify dashboard. And even if you don't host with Spotify, you can go
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and and, you know, engage with your audience there. Okay.
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Yeah. But, Apple doesn't have that yet, so I think
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that would be nice. There are some platforms like
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Goodpods and Podvine, although I'm I'm not sure that
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Podvine exists anymore, where,
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you know, you can have engagement and, communicate with
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your audience. I think that's the big issue with podcasting is just
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there's unlike, say, a blog or a
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YouTube video or something like that where people can easily comment
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most of the time with podcasts, at least on Apple Podcasts, you can't
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do that. And so that is what I would like to see
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change. Okay.
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Is there a piece of technology on your wish list, whether it's something
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that you know is out there that you need to get your hands on or
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something that hasn't been created yet that would make your life easier as a podcaster?
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Well, I will say that what you just
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created has been something that you know, the little beacons,
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I think, that is awesome, when you're
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at conferences and whatnot for people to just scan like that.
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Let's see. Another technology who
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Could be hardware. It could be software.
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Let's see. I would say
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that is a good question. I wonder I'm now I'm just
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thinking about the whole beacon thing. If there's a way
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that it can not only share
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your podcast, but I don't know how you would do this, but
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somehow, like, you would get
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information of the other person's podcast. I don't know if I'm making sense.
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No. So almost like a, a pod swap of sorts. Right? And it's
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like, you know, how do we connect to each other kind of a thing.
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Yeah. That that might be something that would be interesting.
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It's an interesting thought. I will, I will definitely, look
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into it and see if we can come up with something that, makes sense in
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that frame. So thank you for that idea. And by the way, for those who
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don't know what Sarah's talking about, we have these podcast beacons, little NFC,
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based key fobs and wristwatches, and you just tap your phone on here, and
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it'll take people directly to your podcast or landing
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page landing page of your choice. And lastly
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is, are there any podcasts that you're listening to that are your absolute
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favorites? The kind that when a new episode pops up, you were stopping everything else
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that you're doing to go listen to this or, you know, ones that you just
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will absolutely never miss? Oh,
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well, I subscribed to over 50 podcasts. So, I'm trying to think.
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Branded Podcast. That's, with Larry Roberts and Sarah
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Lohse. They're both familiar or popular
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people in the podcast space. There's a lot of podcasts I
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listen to that are about podcasting, but there's too many of them,
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so I'm not even gonna, start to list those. I would say
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after hours entrepreneur with Mark Savant,
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that's also one that I enjoy.
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Let's see. Yeah. Most of these are podcast related.
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That's okay. I mean, obviously, our audience is a little bit more podcast centric.
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So if you have a couple of good ones there that you like, you know,
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and to those who don't get mentioned, it's okay. Don't take offense. She said she
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has a lot of them. Yeah.
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Oh, a non podcast one is the email sound booth with
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Liz Wilcox. She was actually on
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Survivor. But, yeah, she just launched her podcast recently.
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But, yeah, as far as podcasts about podcasting, of course, School of Podcasting,
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I mean, everybody knows that one.
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Podcasting business school, podcast
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workflows. Yeah. There's a whole bunch, but,
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Yeah. I those are definitely ones that I always listen to.
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And this podcast too, podcasting tech. Oh, thank you.
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That's a double double promo. Podcasting tech at a podcast beacon
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mentioned in one shot. We appreciate you, Sarah. Check is in the mail.
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Once again, chatting with Sarah Saint John, entrepreneur,
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author, podcaster. Check out the frugalpreneur both in audio and book
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version. And if you're looking for help growing your show, podcast marketing
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dot agency will have links to everything in the show notes. Sarah, thank you so
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much for joining us today. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.
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Thanks for joining us today on Podcasting Tech. There are links to all
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the hardware and software that help power our guest content and
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podcasting tech available in the show notes and on our website at
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podcastingtech.com. You can also subscribe to the show on your
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favorite platform, connect with us on social media, and even leave a rating and review
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while you're there. Thanks, and we'll see you next time on Podcasting
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Tech.