The player is loading ...
Jan. 28, 2025
Unveiling Podcast Rank Report with Scott Wyden Kivowitz
Is there a tool that can help you understand how your podcast ranks for specific keywords? Or how podcast SEO can dramatically impact your show's discoverability and growth? Today’s guest took on that challenge and created something remarkable.
In today’s episode of Podcasting Tech, host Mathew Passy chats with Scott Wyden Kivowitz, a photographer, community manager, and podcaster, about the Podcast Rank Report—a tool that helps podcasters see where their shows rank for specific keywords on major platforms like Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
Scott is a seasoned podcaster who has been in the podcasting space even before it formally existed, and his extensive background spans across music recording, photography, and podcasting. He is a podcast host at Imagen where he helps photographers with their workflows using AI-powered photographic post-production services.
He shares his journey into podcasting and how he learnt to overcome his insecurities and today he considers himself successful in many ways including his Karate journey.
IN THIS EPISODE, WE COVER:
- Scott’s early journey in podcasting: From recording on a boombox to combining photography and podcasting expertise. (00:02:13)
- The influence of podcasting for business: How Scott used his Jersey Brand podcast to engage local businesses during the pandemic. (00:04:53)
- Introduction to the Podcast Rank Report: What it is and how it helps podcasters understand their rank for specific keywords. (00:08:05)
- Insights and challenges of podcast SEO: Scott’s findings and the complexities of different platforms' algorithms. (00:12:27)
- The need for standardization in podcasting: Scott’s thoughts on improving universal standards for better reporting and integration across platforms. (00:18:33)
Links and resources mentioned in this episode:
- Scott Wyden Kivowitz’s website:
- scottwyden.com
- Podcast Rank Report:
- scottwyden.com/podcast-rank-report
- Social media links:
- Scott Wyden’s LinkedIn
- Scott Wyden’s Instagram
- Scott Wyden’s Youtube
- Recommended hardware: Zoom H6 essentials:
- https://amzn.to/43Gs2Gb
Join us and understand how podcast SEO can dramatically impact your show's discoverability and growth. Scott’s tool brings valuable insight into how your show ranks, which can help you fine-tune your content strategy. Discover how you can leverage this information to boost your podcast's success.
**As an Amazon Associate, we may earn commissions from qualifying purchases of podcasting gear from Amazon.com. We also participate in affiliate programs with many of the software services mentioned on our website. If you purchase something through the links we provide, we may earn a commission at no extra cost to you. The team at Podcasting Tech only recommends products and services that we would use ourselves and that we believe will provide value to our viewers and readers.**
For additional resources and insights visit podcastingtech.com or follow us on social media:
- Instagram: @mathewpassy
- LinkedIn - /mathewpassy
- Threads: @mathewpassy
- Twitter/X: @mathewpassy
- Facebook - /podcastingtech, /mathewpassy
PODCASTING TECH IS POWERED BY:
- Captivate - Easy, professional podcast hosting to create, grow and make money from your podcasts
- Podpage - Build a beautiful podcast website in 5 minutes
- Riverside.fm - Record Podcasts And Videos From Anywhere
- Castmagic - 10x Audio Content With AI
- Podmatch - Matching Hosts and Guest for Podcast Interviews
- Hostinger for Website
- Podgagement - Engage your audience and grow your podcast!
EQUIPMENT IN USE:
- Rodecaster Pro 1st Gen (No longer available). Consider the Rodecaster Duo or Rodecaster Pro II
- EV RE20 with 309a Shockmount
- Rode PSA1+
- iPhone continuity camera but previously the Logitech Brio 4k
- DCMEKA In-Ear Monitors
- BusyBox Smart Sign
Transcript
Speaker:
It's not every day that someone just decides to develop something on their own
Speaker:
and create a tool that is useful for the podcasting audience, but that is what
Speaker:
our guest did today. We are excited to talk about it. We are chatting with
Speaker:
Scott Wyden Kibowitz. He is a photo
Speaker:
photographer, community manager, and podcaster. You can learn more about him at
Speaker:
scottwyden.com. Of course, we will have a link in the show notes so you can
Speaker:
easily find him. Scott, thank you so much for joining us here on the show
Speaker:
today. Yeah. Yeah. It's awesome to be here, Matthew. Thanks for
Speaker:
for for connecting, and and I'm looking forward to this. It's
Speaker:
my pleasure. And we were connected by, Greg Wasserman, I believe, and, he's
Speaker:
been on the show before. And, he is very good at making connections with
Speaker:
people, so I'm excited for, this conversation and, this relationship.
Speaker:
So before we get to this tool that you've built for podcasters, which kinda helps
Speaker:
with rankings and and things like that, tell us how did you get started in
Speaker:
the world of podcasting to begin with? Yeah.
Speaker:
So I'll try to keep this brief, I guess, but,
Speaker:
I as as as, as young
Speaker:
as podcasting is, I've been podcasting longer than
Speaker:
podcastings have podcasting has existed. What
Speaker:
that's what I like to say because, when I was younger,
Speaker:
I was, I I would hang out with a friend
Speaker:
on my street, and we would just take a boombox and just record ourselves
Speaker:
talking about whatever it is, record conversations, make up stories,
Speaker:
whatever. You know, sort of like when you you play with your Ninja Turtle toys
Speaker:
or your Star Wars toys, and you make up these stories. We were doing
Speaker:
that on tape. So I've been
Speaker:
doing this for as long as I can remember, but, really,
Speaker:
it it was straight out of college when I,
Speaker:
I originally went to college for music recording. I wanted to own a recording
Speaker:
studio, record bands for a living, and then I shifted
Speaker:
my my, focus in college to photography technology.
Speaker:
And once I was out of college, I sort of combined the
Speaker:
2 of them, and while I was working in the photo industry serving
Speaker:
photographers, I was also hosting podcasts
Speaker:
and educating photographers, having conversations with photographers in a
Speaker:
podcast, and it's evolved over the years, of course. But so, I've
Speaker:
been doing it for for about 20 years at this point.
Speaker:
And that is your The Workflows Photography podcast?
Speaker:
That is one of the, many podcasts that I have right now, but that's the
Speaker:
one I have for work. So I have a few personal ones. Some are experimental,
Speaker:
some are for fun, and then I have one that I have,
Speaker:
with my full time job is, is the Workflows Photography
Speaker:
podcast. Yeah. Gotcha. Alright. Very cool.
Speaker:
You know, it's funny. Photography podcasts, I was so
Speaker:
shocked when I was really getting started in the podcasting space and
Speaker:
talking to people about all the different topics. And, you know, somebody said, oh, I
Speaker:
do a photography podcast. I'm like, really? I mean, this is an audio
Speaker:
medium. Like, what what what good is a photography podcast? And then I was shocked
Speaker:
and and corrected, when I saw their podcast
Speaker:
thing, like, photography was one of the most popular categories
Speaker:
of shoes, that could be out there. There were just hundreds
Speaker:
of photography podcasts in existence. This is, like, way, way,
Speaker:
way back in the day. Why do you think that is? Why are so many
Speaker:
photographers also, in the podcasting
Speaker:
space? Well, I think that it's there's it's twofold.
Speaker:
The one that's existed for a while has always been the
Speaker:
business side of the photo industry. So that's what our show is, for example. It's
Speaker:
it's we're we're helping photographers with their workflows from the business perspective.
Speaker:
There are shows that it talks about the art, and I
Speaker:
think it's it's a little tricky because
Speaker:
it is hard to visualize what you're talking about when you're
Speaker:
talking about the photo, but, I
Speaker:
there are ways that photographers have been able to communicate
Speaker:
the, the feel of when they were making the photo, why they did it,
Speaker:
things like that. And so there's many different types of photography
Speaker:
podcasts, and I and, the more recent one I'm seeing come
Speaker:
up are now this is one that I'm starting to teach photographers that
Speaker:
they should be doing, is the the podcast
Speaker:
for the photography clients. So while they might still show up
Speaker:
for search results for photography, it's more,
Speaker:
for their clients or their vendors that they work with
Speaker:
to find them. So there's a wide range of
Speaker:
different types of photography shows out there. I think that
Speaker:
it's even though it's a very specific niche, it's there's
Speaker:
so many levels to it. Have you found
Speaker:
that having a podcast was helpful in acquiring new
Speaker:
clients or in how you build relationships with the people in your industry that you
Speaker:
were trying to connect with? Yeah. 100%. So during the
Speaker:
pandemic, I started a podcast called Jersey Brand. So I live in New
Speaker:
Jersey, and, there was a there was a
Speaker:
big, big shift. Wait. You said you're in New Jersey too? Yeah. Down
Speaker:
south. Oh, I didn't know that. That's funny. I'm I'm, I'm
Speaker:
in the in Monmouth County. So Ah, we'll talk more about that
Speaker:
offline. Don't wanna give away your exact address, but I'm sure we have a lot
Speaker:
of similar friends. So,
Speaker:
there was a shift where a lot of people a lot of photographers were offering
Speaker:
during the pandemic because they couldn't get up close and personal with
Speaker:
their clients. They were doing, porch family sessions.
Speaker:
So the photographer would go, and, the the
Speaker:
family would go out to their front porch, their front lawn, whatever it might be,
Speaker:
and the photographer from a distance would photograph those families. Very
Speaker:
inexpensive, very fast, fun, but, like, the
Speaker:
best you can do during pandemic times. And so
Speaker:
I said, wait a minute. We could do this for businesses. So I started a
Speaker:
podcast called Jersey Brands where I just
Speaker:
as I was driving around, as I'm walking around, and I see different things, what
Speaker:
local businesses are doing, I would record an episode on my
Speaker:
phone of I noticed x, y, z company is doing
Speaker:
this in this billboard. Here's what I would have done different if
Speaker:
I ran this business. And it caught the attention of a couple local
Speaker:
businesses that went up hiring me to do porch business
Speaker:
sessions. So I wind up photographing the business and their employees
Speaker:
wearing their company shirts and branded masks and stuff in front of their stores.
Speaker:
So, I that was my own
Speaker:
personal win when it comes to a podcast, but I've been working with other
Speaker:
photographers that have, let's say, like, wedding
Speaker:
podcasts for their wedding couples or their vendors to find them that have
Speaker:
also been, successful in in the,
Speaker:
like, accolade of, hey. You must know what you're doing because you've got a podcast
Speaker:
about this. So that in itself, helps
Speaker:
helps them get more business. Because photography
Speaker:
and because, like, right, the work that you're doing is very localized. Right?
Speaker:
You're not driving to Oregon to do a porch photo for a family.
Speaker:
Right? That it just doesn't, you know, make sense. What were you doing to
Speaker:
attract or market your show to the local audience?
Speaker:
Good question. Yeah. So for that for that, Jersey
Speaker:
brand show, all I did was push it out on
Speaker:
social, especially local Facebook groups.
Speaker:
Just just say, hey. I got a a podcast about some of the businesses that
Speaker:
you shop at, and and, those
Speaker:
businesses are in those groups, so they see it. So
Speaker:
when it's a local one, you gotta spend your efforts,
Speaker:
doing what you may hate doing, which is spending more time on Facebook, but
Speaker:
spending time in those local groups interacting with those
Speaker:
people and those businesses, whichever your your
Speaker:
audience is. Gotcha. So let's let's fast forward a
Speaker:
little bit. So the reason why we were introduced is because you came up with
Speaker:
something called the podcast rank report. Tell
Speaker:
us what that is and why you decided to put this together.
Speaker:
Yeah. So the podcast rank report
Speaker:
is, a metadata
Speaker:
search, so to speak, of where your podcast
Speaker:
ranks for a specific keyword on Apple
Speaker:
Podcasts and Spotify. We know that YouTube, right,
Speaker:
is part of Google, and their SEO, so to speak, is
Speaker:
for YouTube is more like Google. So I didn't focus on YouTube at all.
Speaker:
I went specifically to the to the the core,
Speaker:
you know, audio first players that
Speaker:
most people are having their shows listened to listened at
Speaker:
the most. And, what it
Speaker:
does is it actually you put in the name of your of your
Speaker:
show, you put in the keyword that you wanna see how
Speaker:
you rank well for, and it's going to
Speaker:
do a search behind the scenes of that and spit
Speaker:
out a number. I rank 50. I rank 48.
Speaker:
And it breaks it gives you a bullet point of where you rank on Apple,
Speaker:
where you rank on Spotify, and then, actually, we'll give you the
Speaker:
list of 1 to a 100 on Apple and 1 to a 150 on
Speaker:
Spotify so that you can you can see for yourself
Speaker:
in the data, yes. This was correct. I am with
Speaker:
5048, whatever I just said. And it emails you this
Speaker:
within about 2 minutes. The reason why I
Speaker:
made this was very selfish of me,
Speaker:
because Test them just to let me know. Yes. Yes.
Speaker:
I wanna know how my shows are doing
Speaker:
for specific keywords. There are many tools out there that tells
Speaker:
you, in general, how your show is doing, but it's not
Speaker:
specific to what your audience might actually be searching for.
Speaker:
Right? In the case of our show, the Workflows Photography podcast,
Speaker:
I know that our audience are searching for photography
Speaker:
as the keyword or what they what shows they might wanna follow or subscribe
Speaker:
to. So I didn't want a, more generic
Speaker:
tool that just says, oh, you're ranking in the top 100 for
Speaker:
for entrepreneurship or top 100 for arts or visual arts or
Speaker:
whatever. I wanted a specific keyword, not the category
Speaker:
of how well I'm doing. And there was only one
Speaker:
tool that has ever existed that did this, and they went out
Speaker:
of business. And I was very disappointed when they went out of
Speaker:
business. Yeah. I used to use that for, for podcast audits with clients.
Speaker:
It was a great tool for, keywords and and kinda understanding your your
Speaker:
show SEO. Yes. Exactly. So,
Speaker:
I wound up buying a one of those no
Speaker:
code type platforms because I am not a developer,
Speaker:
and I knew that this
Speaker:
once I figure things out, that tool could be the back end for
Speaker:
what for this podcast rank rank report.
Speaker:
And it took me a while, but and it took some help
Speaker:
from the one of the developers of this no code platform,
Speaker:
because I am not a developer, and it worked.
Speaker:
And I so I tested it and tested it and tested it, and then I
Speaker:
built the front end using, Gravity Forms on WordPress
Speaker:
so, that way, like, it I can use my WordPress site to
Speaker:
to to to track what people are are, submitting and also
Speaker:
send the email with the, with the results and things like that.
Speaker:
So it's a combination of of multiple tools
Speaker:
coming together to make this work.
Speaker:
But it works, and it's, it's amazing. And I scratch my own itch.
Speaker:
I'm very happy about it. I'm curious. How
Speaker:
often do you think or or does your, you
Speaker:
know, reports show that people are really
Speaker:
searching the stores for podcasts based on keywords
Speaker:
or I don't know. I I find it the search of
Speaker:
podcast, you know, confusing, annoying,
Speaker:
not super helpful. And so I'm just curious, like, really
Speaker:
how big of a piece of the discoverability
Speaker:
share does this keyword search really play into podcasts, or is there
Speaker:
anything that you've been able to extrapolate from the data thus far?
Speaker:
One thing I have noticed is some people think that the keywords that
Speaker:
they're trying to track is an obscure keyword that no one
Speaker:
would probably search for. So I
Speaker:
think it, you know, it there's there's I think
Speaker:
there's 2 types of of podcasters out there. There's
Speaker:
the podcasters who know,
Speaker:
maybe there's 3 types. There's there's the podcasters who know,
Speaker:
I want like like, in my case, I want my show to rank when
Speaker:
somebody searches for the term photography. Right?
Speaker:
Then there's the podcasters who,
Speaker:
don't really understand how they want their
Speaker:
show to rank, or,
Speaker:
or or, like I said, think that a certain keyword,
Speaker:
is is what is important for them even though it may not be.
Speaker:
And then there's the 3rd type would be the podcaster. They just really
Speaker:
don't care. They're just doing it. There's podcasts, and they're not so concerned
Speaker:
about how they rank and whatnot. And I will say
Speaker:
that, I don't
Speaker:
think anybody truly understands podcast SEO. I don't
Speaker:
think the algorithms are the same
Speaker:
for Apple versus Spotify.
Speaker:
I just, I do a lot of testing for the the show that I
Speaker:
have for work, and I did
Speaker:
a test of workflows hyphen photography
Speaker:
podcast, workflows photography podcast, and
Speaker:
the workflows photography podcast. And I'll tell you, when I added
Speaker:
the word the in front of it, which is a stop word,
Speaker:
our rank got better on Apple and way worse on Spotify.
Speaker:
So something something is very,
Speaker:
very strange about, about podcast SEO
Speaker:
that I hope one day somebody truly figures out,
Speaker:
and and it can really help everybody. Maybe I
Speaker:
mean, I don't really collect any data, so to speak. I I
Speaker:
have the data of what people search for and the name of their
Speaker:
show. But from that, I can pull out
Speaker:
things like, common and I actually put this
Speaker:
on the landing page for the report, common stop words that
Speaker:
shows are using as well as common symbols. High
Speaker:
the two two common ones so far are the and
Speaker:
symbol and the, hyphen symbol.
Speaker:
So, and it's not even that common.
Speaker:
It's, 12.12 percent of the shows that have been
Speaker:
submitted so far have the hyphen. 3.03 have the
Speaker:
and symbol. So it's not many, but
Speaker:
36.36 have the in it.
Speaker:
That I can understand as well. Yeah. Yeah. So, like, I'm
Speaker:
not, I'm not I'm not here to track people's data in that sort
Speaker:
of way. I I am interested in seeing what I could find, like, that
Speaker:
kind of cool information from it. But,
Speaker:
but, yeah, I I don't know. It's it's a it's a complicated thing,
Speaker:
and I just know that when I was building this
Speaker:
and I shared it with a bunch of other,
Speaker:
podcasters, and I was like, would you find this valuable? They all were
Speaker:
like, yes. So I'm like, I knew if it would work for me
Speaker:
and and others want it, why not? Why not? So,
Speaker:
yeah. And if you're curious about the report, check out scottwiden.com/podcastdashrankdashreport.
Speaker:
Again, we'll put a link right there in the show notes so you can very
Speaker:
easily find it. Also, while you're there, do me a favor and
Speaker:
click on the upvote button, for product hunt and,
Speaker:
give Scott's platform a little bit of love. And you can check out
Speaker:
everything else he's doing at scottwiden.com. It's
Speaker:
w y d e n, scottwyden.com.
Speaker:
So Scott before we let you go, we have a couple of questions that we'd
Speaker:
like to ask everybody who come on the show. The first one is I mean
Speaker:
obviously, you know, it might be search because that's what you seem to be
Speaker:
working on right now. But having been in the space for a long,
Speaker:
long time, right, recording in your boom box way back in the day,
Speaker:
are there is there a place or are there a few places in the podcasting
Speaker:
world where you'd like to see some big improvements whether that's on
Speaker:
production, discovery, distribution, just anything where you're
Speaker:
like, man, podcasting would be so much better if blank.
Speaker:
So I know that there's a lot of different
Speaker:
individuals plus businesses trying to push for
Speaker:
more standards across podcasting. Right? You've got,
Speaker:
Transistor, which is the host that I use that, really
Speaker:
tries to utilize all those standards in everything they do,
Speaker:
but there's some there's some breaking points that
Speaker:
different platforms don't not supporting, don't
Speaker:
get back. So for example, I would love
Speaker:
to see things like reporting to be more universal
Speaker:
between platforms. There's things
Speaker:
like YouTube, which is really trying to push hard with the
Speaker:
podcasting, but most players don't see the YouTube
Speaker:
stats back in the in the in the
Speaker:
hosting to so you have to look at 2 different places to figure everything out.
Speaker:
So I would love to see more of a of a,
Speaker:
universally adopted system
Speaker:
make their way throughout the whole e the whole ecosystem. Right?
Speaker:
Podcasting's funny, because yes, there's competition between the hosts, yes, there's competition
Speaker:
between the players, but it helps everybody. If they
Speaker:
all if everybody adopts one standard and they just all
Speaker:
utilize it, it helps everybody. So I would love to see
Speaker:
that happen. Alright. Fair enough.
Speaker:
Again, you you probably have a lot of these things, but is there a piece
Speaker:
of tech on your podcasting wish list, whether it's hardware or
Speaker:
software? It could be something that's out there that you just haven't bought yet or
Speaker:
could be something that hasn't been made yet that you'd love to see, created that
Speaker:
would help you as a podcaster.
Speaker:
Yeah. So
Speaker:
I have I use a Rodecaster Pro 2 on my
Speaker:
here with me right now. Right? And
Speaker:
I've been working on a travel kit for when I go to trade shows and
Speaker:
wanna talk with people there, and in the past, I would just use
Speaker:
a DJI Mic 2, clip
Speaker:
clip me and clip the the guest, and and I would record
Speaker:
and have it go right to the camera, plus record in the in the mics
Speaker:
themselves as a backup. I would love to see,
Speaker:
I have a one of the little Zoom,
Speaker:
I don't know. I forgot which model it is, but it's one of those Zoom
Speaker:
portable, Like a h4, h5, something like
Speaker:
that? Yeah. One of those, but it's it's, one of the older
Speaker:
ones, and it's it has the 4 XLR ports in it. It
Speaker:
doesn't have 32 bit float, and I find that when you're at trade shows,
Speaker:
that is needed. So I would love to have
Speaker:
something equally as portable, not doesn't need all the bells and
Speaker:
whistles, but it needs 32 bit float, needs to be lightweight, small,
Speaker:
and have 4 XLR ports,
Speaker:
plus headphone outs.
Speaker:
I'd love the fact that what the 8 the the Zoom has I think it's
Speaker:
4 double a batteries, like, simple, but I could
Speaker:
still plug it in USB and power it that way. So
Speaker:
Zoom's probably working on it already, but Well, actually, there's a Zoom
Speaker:
they they refresh their line. There's the Zoom H6 essentials that
Speaker:
does do 32 bit float. It has the 4 XLR ports. It's only got the
Speaker:
one headphone jack, but, you know, you put a headphone amp in or I don't
Speaker:
know. When I'm when I'm recording in a loud conference, I don't usually make other
Speaker:
people wear headphones. I might put an earbud in just so I can hear if
Speaker:
they're on mic, but, that's probably the closest thing that we have to
Speaker:
it right now. Although, again, more to discuss with
Speaker:
you all fair after this call. So, stick
Speaker:
around. And then lastly, are there podcasts on your
Speaker:
playlist that, you know, no matter what it is you're doing or whatever
Speaker:
else you're listening to when they drop a new episode, you were stopping, you were
Speaker:
listening, you're never gonna let an episode go past you? 100%.
Speaker:
There's one, and it's my,
Speaker:
let me not think about anything important and just enjoy
Speaker:
the conversation, smartless. Funny, always.
Speaker:
Just laid back.
Speaker:
I wanna be a guest one day just because,
Speaker:
you know, it's it's so it's such a good show.
Speaker:
Yeah. And that is if I was to if you said to me,
Speaker:
2,025, you have to subscribe, pay for 1 podcast,
Speaker:
that's the one it would be to have no ads. Fair
Speaker:
enough. Fair enough. Yeah. Well, we've been chatting with Scott
Speaker:
Wyden Kivowitz. You can find him at scottwyden.com while you're there. Make sure
Speaker:
you check out his podcasters rank report and
Speaker:
give it an upvote, while you can, Scott. It is a pleasure. Thank
Speaker:
you for joining me today. Thank you.